Now THIS is a bad start!
- Thread starter tR1cKy
- Start date
Chunky Kong
Warlord
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2004
- Messages
- 191
I say this be moved to the S+T forum.
The Fjonis
Prince
Congratulations!! I've been reading this every day! The first thing I did when going on the forums was check whether you'd added a new update. I feel I've really learnt a lot, both in terms of hints and tips, and also game mechanics and how the AI works. All in all, I thank you for making this thread!
tR1cKy
taking over the world
tR1cKy
taking over the world
Hi dudes! Once again i must confess that i am amazed to see all this support and interest in this ... (how to define it)... immersive game log. I didn't expected to become so popular... i've seen more that 700 views in only 1 day 
Thank you very much to all who congratulate me for the victory! Since last post: Sub, Coolio, irishlamma, bonscott, dresdor, Chunky, Fjonis. All this positive feedback honours me.
Quick replies:
Chunky: it will.
Coolio: you've been one of the most enthusiastic supporters
Alas, it's impossible to replay at the moment. The game is modded and this was just a test-start. Once i post the mod, i'll include the civ3mod.bic used to start this game (supposing it will be still compatible, of course).
EDIT: A game analysis will follow soon!
Thank you very much to all who congratulate me for the victory! Since last post: Sub, Coolio, irishlamma, bonscott, dresdor, Chunky, Fjonis. All this positive feedback honours me.
Quick replies:
Chunky: it will.
Coolio: you've been one of the most enthusiastic supporters
Alas, it's impossible to replay at the moment. The game is modded and this was just a test-start. Once i post the mod, i'll include the civ3mod.bic used to start this game (supposing it will be still compatible, of course).EDIT: A game analysis will follow soon!
CoolioVonHoolio
Quit WoW, back to Civ.
nvm about the save... but still i learned alot from this and i want to see some more stories from you
k-a-bob
Waiting patiently.......
First off - Congrats!! I was looking at the start locations, and you may have even been aided by the greeks being so close to the egyptians (that were so close to you) to keep them both in check for a little longer.
Second - I told you about those pesky Americans flipping back while a world away!!
This thread rocked - now I'm going to have to find something else to read!
Second - I told you about those pesky Americans flipping back while a world away!!
This thread rocked - now I'm going to have to find something else to read!
tR1cKy
taking over the world
k-a-bob: crosspost
you were prophetic on that issue... btw, chances aren't so improbable, i should have expected a flip to america.
Yes, there will be something new coming. Not immediately, but in the near future. Here's a short list of what i'd like to try:
However, this thread has been totally unique. For how it started, for what it became later, and for the level of details i put on it. But it's something too time-consuming to be done on regular basis, even for a civfanatic like me!
So, expect definitively some more tR1cKy stuff, but in the Stories and Tales forum and with less fanfare than this one. Although i'm proud of the popularity of this thread, i see no point in willing to be at the centre of the scenes.
I'm still writing the game analysis, it will be probably posted today. In the meantime, enjoy something i haven't posted yet: the final "top 5" screen.
you were prophetic on that issue... btw, chances aren't so improbable, i should have expected a flip to america.
Yes, there will be something new coming. Not immediately, but in the near future. Here's a short list of what i'd like to try:
- a regent level game played in deity-style, i.e. fast initial expansion and total militaristic development, with little consideration for anything else. The goal: fast domination, of course!
- a sid attempt on vanilla or ptw (by modding deity level)
- an ultra-fast spaceship attempt, although i still have to figure out what are the best prerequisites of such a game.
- an ultra-crowded game, say standard map with 15 opponents.
However, this thread has been totally unique. For how it started, for what it became later, and for the level of details i put on it. But it's something too time-consuming to be done on regular basis, even for a civfanatic like me!
So, expect definitively some more tR1cKy stuff, but in the Stories and Tales forum and with less fanfare than this one. Although i'm proud of the popularity of this thread, i see no point in willing to be at the centre of the scenes.
I'm still writing the game analysis, it will be probably posted today. In the meantime, enjoy something i haven't posted yet: the final "top 5" screen.
tR1cKy
taking over the world
--------------------
Game Analysis
--------------------
Extra rules
First, let's recall the extra set of rules i used:
Let's say that i didn't consider rule 4 when i built forts that i knew to be abandoned later. About rule 5, well i simply decided to not use it once i realized that i could withstand the constant menace of cultural flips with minimal defenses and insurance troops garrisoned outside (usually). Sometimes i also left the city undefended for recapture (knowing that 1 turn later i would have recaptured a more controllable town). In 1 case i gifted the city to an ally, but there were also strategic considerations involved.
Anyway, rule 5 wasn't necessary. I never did a turn reload due to a flip, nor i could have done it respecting the rule. I reloaded 2 or 3 times (i don't remember exactly) because of stupid mistakes, like moving a worker in the wrong spot.
Now, could it be called a variant? Let's ditch rule 4 (silly) and rewrite the rules more clearly:
I think this set of rules deserves at least the denomination of small variant. It could be called The Conqueror
The world map
The really crazy starting points are in part due to the strange map which came out from the map generator. The southern part of the Old World lacked a significant landmass to be used as a startpoint. I'm not sure about that, but i have the impression that the start location of the human player is the last to be placed on the map. Being it already "full", i came out with that really bad start location: on the edge of a peninsula on the edge of a continent and greatly compressed by Egypt and Greece.
Now, what probably interest you more:
How the hell was i able to win that damned game?!?
A thing that could be noted by looking carefully at the score progression: the first turn was used to move the settler into a better founding site. Roma was built in 3950BC.
The first part of the game was in fact easy. Wait, i'm not bragging. It was easy only because there was only 1 viable way to go on with the game. In my previous deity attempts (this is the 6th so far) i've always studied carefully the first moves: where to explore, where to build roads, where to settle & so on. This time, there was nothing to think about, because the possible strategy was only one: grab that slice of land, crank up the military, go killing and hope in a bit of luck.
And so did i. The only infrastructure built were barracks in Roma and Remola (former Egitto Merda), and a temple in Remola to grab 2 extra tiles and the furs. Obviously i built the necessary road to and worked some tiles... i didn't recall how many workers i had, but they must have been 2, max 3. Then, archers and some spears. I was lucky in my first attacks at Thebes and Memphis. Chances of failure were not so little, and a failing attack would have meant a loss. But i had nothing else to try, so i went for it, and succeeded. Probably the true lucky event was the capture of Memphis. There was a stack of 2 settlers and 3 units that just came out of the city. If i attacked a turn earlier, i would have met them into Memphis and probably i would have been repealed.
Beating Egypt provided me all the techs the others already had. And the contact with the greeks allowed me to meet the Aztecs and have a decent map of the continent. Later, with the successive attack on Egypt, i grabbed all the ancient age techs and met America. Middle Age entered in 90BC. Impressive considering how i started.
Another good strategic decision (in the short term) was to build the FP in Thebes. Not the capital, the FP. This way i maintained an almost uncorrupted territory even in despotism, and this was translated into more units in less time. Moving the capital would have left Roma quite corrupted at the time when it was producing an archer in 2 turns or a legionary in 3. Once i captured America, i started to be doubtful about this decision. If i moved the capital, i would have had the possibility of moving the capital again in a city like New York (Copernicus), while building the FP in Athens. This would have sped up significantly the conquest of America, but on the other hand it would have slowed the previous assimilation of Egypt, Greek, and Aztland. It's not easy to say what option would have been better. Another point in favor of the alternate strategy was that, by having the capital in New York, i would have benefitted of a significant reasearch potential, probably enough to justify a fast research of Steam Power. Note that in the whole game i spent absolutely nothing on reasearch, apart from a lone scientist somewhere to enact the zero-research gambit.
Then, i was very clever in exploiting some evident AS dumbness. I bought Monarchy from the greeks for my whole gpt income, only to have them declare war next turn, thus collecting the tech almost for free. What was Alex thinking? Once again, i can only suppose: after buying monarchy, probably the AS decided to refrain from war, only to change again this decision when i held a revolution and fell into anarchy... who knows?
The major turning point of the game was the capture of Athens. The great library provided me with all the medieval techs i was missing, and the leader popped out from the fight allowed me to move the capital there, at the center of the continent. With the capital moved, i also got rid of all the cultural pressure from Greece (the capital can't flip) that was 6x mine at that point of the game. Athens was from the beginning a totally uncorrupted city (another consequence of moving the capital) and it was able to develop quicky at the start and crank up a big number of units later. With Athens in my hand, the chance of a victory raised a lot.
In such a situation, the assimilation of Greece was only a matter of time. At this point i probably made a strategic mistake in waiting for Sparta to complete Sistine. If i would have attacked earlier, i probably would have avoided greek musketmen... who knows? And avoiding greek muskets would have led me to a faster assimilation. So i would have attacked the Aztecs earlier and avoided aztec musketmen. And so i would have attacked America earlier, thus avoiding american riflemen... As i said, who knows? I could have won the game 50 turns earlier, or i could have gained no advantage in a earlier attack... Sistine was important to get rid of unhappiness. 6 content faces for a cathedral are a real bargain.
Once again, who knows?
The rest of the game is straightforward. Attack on America, then on the Iroquois. The fastest route to Domination victory. A clever move was to award Persia with a city before it was erased from the world. This small donation turned out to be very important. I had the iroquois crippled to death by war weariness for at least 10 turns more. The invasion of the iroquois mainland has been much easier than expected.
In conclusion, how did i manage to win this game? In a few words: luck, strategy, careful planning and good gaming skills
. Ok, forgive me the little bragging, but when someone manage to win a deity game like that, it should be at least a good player, right? 
...
Pinky: see Brain! You took over the world!
Brain: yes, Pinky, yes! The world is at my command! My dream has come true, at last!
Pinky: but, Brain...
Brain: yes, Pinky? You don't seem too happy...
Pinky: no, Brain. I'm fine... it's just...
Brain: what, Pinky? WHAT?!?
Pinky: what are we going to do tonight?
Brain: what we do every night, Pinky. We try to... oh, wait. You're right. What are we supposed to do now?!?
Kud0s to everyone who posted here! In post order: Tomoyo, BasketCase, Total War, Renata, Xerol, Theoden, oagersnap, sealman, sennomulo, Rik Meleet, Chieftess, Chuckchi Husky, Peck of Arabia, TriangleMan, teccuk, budweiser, Chris1111, Sargon of Agade, Gogf, Admiral8Q, kenscott, china444, bonscott, microbe...
sheesh! i'm just page 4... let's go on.
... BlackJAC, AndrewH, HAND, xiaoafei, mrtn, Drahkkael, Colin4964, hoplite606, The Fjonis, Arachnaphobia, Shadow Phoenix, 777, Zelda's Man, k-a-bob, MOTH, Meffy, greekguy, The Chieftan, Eastian, Rebeljoe, Communisto, BlackBetsy, Jopedamus I, Puppeteer, stachnie, Aegis Shield, dresdor, llib_rm, schwanenfeldii (i had to re-read it 2 times before writing it well!), Raging Jonathan...
i'm just realizing now how many people actually posted here!
...Sandman2003, Hatework, DS_Legionary, CoolioVonHoolio, jafink, Scuffer, eldar, general_kill, Grogs, JackRules, Sub, Me-262, Turner_727, Dachspmg, Jason Fliegel, Zorn, El Dorko Grande, Abegweit, Damnyankee, Falcon02, irishlamma, Chunky Kong.
And finally thank to all the lurkers who never posted but enjoyed this thread anyway! 16500 views at the moment i'm writing this.
That's all folks.
[size=+4]GAME OVER[/size]
Obviously, feel free to ask questions or post comments as your wish. Only 1 humble request: don't spam this thread please, or at least don't spam it too much...
Game Analysis
--------------------
Extra rules
First, let's recall the extra set of rules i used:
- no city razing
- no city starving, unless the governor decides to do so or it is essential to prevent civil disorder
- only cities size 1 can be abandoned
- only foreign settlers can build cities.
- turn reload is ok if garrisoned troops are 2x population units present. This limit is raised to 3x if there are resistors or the city is in civil disorder.
Let's say that i didn't consider rule 4 when i built forts that i knew to be abandoned later. About rule 5, well i simply decided to not use it once i realized that i could withstand the constant menace of cultural flips with minimal defenses and insurance troops garrisoned outside (usually). Sometimes i also left the city undefended for recapture (knowing that 1 turn later i would have recaptured a more controllable town). In 1 case i gifted the city to an ally, but there were also strategic considerations involved.
Anyway, rule 5 wasn't necessary. I never did a turn reload due to a flip, nor i could have done it respecting the rule. I reloaded 2 or 3 times (i don't remember exactly) because of stupid mistakes, like moving a worker in the wrong spot.
Now, could it be called a variant? Let's ditch rule 4 (silly) and rewrite the rules more clearly:
- no city razing, unless for autoraze.
- no city starving, unless:
- the governor is active and decides to do so;
- it is essential to prevent civil disorder;
- only cities size 1 can be abandoned
I think this set of rules deserves at least the denomination of small variant. It could be called The Conqueror
The world map
The really crazy starting points are in part due to the strange map which came out from the map generator. The southern part of the Old World lacked a significant landmass to be used as a startpoint. I'm not sure about that, but i have the impression that the start location of the human player is the last to be placed on the map. Being it already "full", i came out with that really bad start location: on the edge of a peninsula on the edge of a continent and greatly compressed by Egypt and Greece.
Now, what probably interest you more:
How the hell was i able to win that damned game?!?
A thing that could be noted by looking carefully at the score progression: the first turn was used to move the settler into a better founding site. Roma was built in 3950BC.
The first part of the game was in fact easy. Wait, i'm not bragging. It was easy only because there was only 1 viable way to go on with the game. In my previous deity attempts (this is the 6th so far) i've always studied carefully the first moves: where to explore, where to build roads, where to settle & so on. This time, there was nothing to think about, because the possible strategy was only one: grab that slice of land, crank up the military, go killing and hope in a bit of luck.
And so did i. The only infrastructure built were barracks in Roma and Remola (former Egitto Merda), and a temple in Remola to grab 2 extra tiles and the furs. Obviously i built the necessary road to and worked some tiles... i didn't recall how many workers i had, but they must have been 2, max 3. Then, archers and some spears. I was lucky in my first attacks at Thebes and Memphis. Chances of failure were not so little, and a failing attack would have meant a loss. But i had nothing else to try, so i went for it, and succeeded. Probably the true lucky event was the capture of Memphis. There was a stack of 2 settlers and 3 units that just came out of the city. If i attacked a turn earlier, i would have met them into Memphis and probably i would have been repealed.
Beating Egypt provided me all the techs the others already had. And the contact with the greeks allowed me to meet the Aztecs and have a decent map of the continent. Later, with the successive attack on Egypt, i grabbed all the ancient age techs and met America. Middle Age entered in 90BC. Impressive considering how i started.
Another good strategic decision (in the short term) was to build the FP in Thebes. Not the capital, the FP. This way i maintained an almost uncorrupted territory even in despotism, and this was translated into more units in less time. Moving the capital would have left Roma quite corrupted at the time when it was producing an archer in 2 turns or a legionary in 3. Once i captured America, i started to be doubtful about this decision. If i moved the capital, i would have had the possibility of moving the capital again in a city like New York (Copernicus), while building the FP in Athens. This would have sped up significantly the conquest of America, but on the other hand it would have slowed the previous assimilation of Egypt, Greek, and Aztland. It's not easy to say what option would have been better. Another point in favor of the alternate strategy was that, by having the capital in New York, i would have benefitted of a significant reasearch potential, probably enough to justify a fast research of Steam Power. Note that in the whole game i spent absolutely nothing on reasearch, apart from a lone scientist somewhere to enact the zero-research gambit.
Then, i was very clever in exploiting some evident AS dumbness. I bought Monarchy from the greeks for my whole gpt income, only to have them declare war next turn, thus collecting the tech almost for free. What was Alex thinking? Once again, i can only suppose: after buying monarchy, probably the AS decided to refrain from war, only to change again this decision when i held a revolution and fell into anarchy... who knows?
The major turning point of the game was the capture of Athens. The great library provided me with all the medieval techs i was missing, and the leader popped out from the fight allowed me to move the capital there, at the center of the continent. With the capital moved, i also got rid of all the cultural pressure from Greece (the capital can't flip) that was 6x mine at that point of the game. Athens was from the beginning a totally uncorrupted city (another consequence of moving the capital) and it was able to develop quicky at the start and crank up a big number of units later. With Athens in my hand, the chance of a victory raised a lot.
In such a situation, the assimilation of Greece was only a matter of time. At this point i probably made a strategic mistake in waiting for Sparta to complete Sistine. If i would have attacked earlier, i probably would have avoided greek musketmen... who knows? And avoiding greek muskets would have led me to a faster assimilation. So i would have attacked the Aztecs earlier and avoided aztec musketmen. And so i would have attacked America earlier, thus avoiding american riflemen... As i said, who knows? I could have won the game 50 turns earlier, or i could have gained no advantage in a earlier attack... Sistine was important to get rid of unhappiness. 6 content faces for a cathedral are a real bargain.
Once again, who knows?
The rest of the game is straightforward. Attack on America, then on the Iroquois. The fastest route to Domination victory. A clever move was to award Persia with a city before it was erased from the world. This small donation turned out to be very important. I had the iroquois crippled to death by war weariness for at least 10 turns more. The invasion of the iroquois mainland has been much easier than expected.
In conclusion, how did i manage to win this game? In a few words: luck, strategy, careful planning and good gaming skills
. Ok, forgive me the little bragging, but when someone manage to win a deity game like that, it should be at least a good player, right? ...
Pinky: see Brain! You took over the world!
Brain: yes, Pinky, yes! The world is at my command! My dream has come true, at last!
Pinky: but, Brain...
Brain: yes, Pinky? You don't seem too happy...
Pinky: no, Brain. I'm fine... it's just...
Brain: what, Pinky? WHAT?!?
Pinky: what are we going to do tonight?
Brain: what we do every night, Pinky. We try to... oh, wait. You're right. What are we supposed to do now?!?
Kud0s to everyone who posted here! In post order: Tomoyo, BasketCase, Total War, Renata, Xerol, Theoden, oagersnap, sealman, sennomulo, Rik Meleet, Chieftess, Chuckchi Husky, Peck of Arabia, TriangleMan, teccuk, budweiser, Chris1111, Sargon of Agade, Gogf, Admiral8Q, kenscott, china444, bonscott, microbe...
sheesh! i'm just page 4... let's go on.
... BlackJAC, AndrewH, HAND, xiaoafei, mrtn, Drahkkael, Colin4964, hoplite606, The Fjonis, Arachnaphobia, Shadow Phoenix, 777, Zelda's Man, k-a-bob, MOTH, Meffy, greekguy, The Chieftan, Eastian, Rebeljoe, Communisto, BlackBetsy, Jopedamus I, Puppeteer, stachnie, Aegis Shield, dresdor, llib_rm, schwanenfeldii (i had to re-read it 2 times before writing it well!), Raging Jonathan...
i'm just realizing now how many people actually posted here!
...Sandman2003, Hatework, DS_Legionary, CoolioVonHoolio, jafink, Scuffer, eldar, general_kill, Grogs, JackRules, Sub, Me-262, Turner_727, Dachspmg, Jason Fliegel, Zorn, El Dorko Grande, Abegweit, Damnyankee, Falcon02, irishlamma, Chunky Kong.
And finally thank to all the lurkers who never posted but enjoyed this thread anyway! 16500 views at the moment i'm writing this.
That's all folks.
[size=+4]GAME OVER[/size]
Obviously, feel free to ask questions or post comments as your wish. Only 1 humble request: don't spam this thread please, or at least don't spam it too much...
JackRules
incompertus vapulus
tRicky - Excellent read. Well done and thanks for making my work days go a little quicker!
Pentium
Digital Matter
Congratz, tR1cKy!!
That was one great game!
That was one great game!
Jason Fliegel
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2003
- Messages
- 281
tR1cKy said:Hi Puppeteer! The 2-city island is still loyal:
Walls!?! Pop out a unit with a defense value -- the cheapest one you can -- and move it onto the open square on the island (the one with the worker stack). Bob will have nowhere to land an invasion. Then you can build useful things like marketplaces (if you're concerned about keeping the natives happy and/or if you're producing enough commerce to make a marketplace pay for itself) and troops.
Edit: I see I'm too late -- you've already won! Congratulations! Hooray!
Jason Fliegel
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2003
- Messages
- 281
tR1cKy said:
I think an ultra-fast spaceship attempt would be pretty hard, because to be ultra-fast, you've got to let the AI research for you. Which means keeping the AIs not just alive, but healthy. That in turn means that during the end game, the AIs are going to be right there with you building spaceship parts. This is particularly true in Vanilla/PTW, where there are plenty of strategic resources to go around, so uranium or aluminum denial won't often be a viable strategy.
The best prerequisite, I think would be a Scientific/Industrious or Scientific/Commercial civ, with lots of Scientific AIs.
tR1cKy
taking over the world
Hi!
Extra kud0s to Pentium and rbis4rbb (this too, i had to read it twice) - thanx dudez!
JackRules hehe - now your work days will be a little slower... until the next tR1cKy challenge
Jason: exactly. It will be hard. Extreme warmongering won't be the best thing to do, i guess... i need to expand and conquer, but not to the point of crippling my enemies. And yes, i'll need lots of scientific opponents, and i need to be scientific too. I'm thinking about Persia. And probably, i'll need to break an old-time habit and go for Republic... (now someone will have a good laugh... i won't tell who's that character, but she changes avatar every day )
Any opinions on the other possible challenges? And on the Conqueror variant?
Extra kud0s to Pentium and rbis4rbb (this too, i had to read it twice) - thanx dudez!
JackRules hehe - now your work days will be a little slower... until the next tR1cKy challenge
Jason: exactly. It will be hard. Extreme warmongering won't be the best thing to do, i guess... i need to expand and conquer, but not to the point of crippling my enemies. And yes, i'll need lots of scientific opponents, and i need to be scientific too. I'm thinking about Persia. And probably, i'll need to break an old-time habit and go for Republic... (now someone will have a good laugh... i won't tell who's that character, but she changes avatar every day
)Any opinions on the other possible challenges? And on the Conqueror variant?
Tomoyo
Fate
I've tried an ultra-fast Emperor Space game. Launched in 1285AD. Tone beat me by 11 turns. 
Now I'm trying to beat him.
My first game was with the Inca. Now I'm trying the Sumerians. For vanilla, I think Persia or Greece would be the best.
Now I'm trying to beat him.
My first game was with the Inca. Now I'm trying the Sumerians. For vanilla, I think Persia or Greece would be the best.
tR1cKy
taking over the world
Tomoyo: i was aware of your amazing result, but i didn't know you were beaten Only 18 turns... 
well i guess that both you and Tone are approaching the physical limit of such a victory. About your launch, did you pick your opponents or have them random? And what about the map stats? (size, terrain, & so on). Any info would be quite useful. Thanx in advance.
Zorn: i think that such a game will end up having a ferocious tech race and an even more ferocious fight for the territory - lots of slaughter, exactly what i like
Only 18 turns... well i guess that both you and Tone are approaching the physical limit of such a victory. About your launch, did you pick your opponents or have them random? And what about the map stats? (size, terrain, & so on). Any info would be quite useful. Thanx in advance.Zorn: i think that such a game will end up having a ferocious tech race and an even more ferocious fight for the territory - lots of slaughter, exactly what i like
Shadow Phoenix
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2004
- Messages
- 170
Nice tR1cKy! =D
I would have never be able to do that.
I would have force tech research untill planes and then the invasion =D
I would have never be able to do that.
I would have force tech research untill planes and then the invasion =D
Genocidicbunny
Bug squasher
Wow, anyhoo, I had a bad one two days ago. I started on a one by one square and I think it was in the 1800s ad that I finally got another city on a nearby continent. I have no Idea why I went ahead with the game but I got defeated 7 turns later when the Americans wiped out my island city and my continental which turned out to be another 4 by 5 area hunk of land so yeah, that sucked. sorry, ive got no screenshots cus it just wasnt working( the print screen clicking)
