Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Slvynn, May 25, 2008.
I hope Kael knows
He said something to the effect of "it's intentional you don't know anything yet, you'll find out in Ice."
This is code for "I'm making it up as I go along."
We'll probably find out in a scenario. Which is fine by me.
It's a cool concept though, don't you think.
I wonder what the civ names that end with ...im stand for. Is it like ..ia in our world? (Slovakia, Yoguslavia, Russia, Latvia, etc)
Oh, we know. But we're not telling.
He's to do with rebuilding patria i think. IIRC the Bannor, Calabim and Malakim are all of the descendants from patria.
The Amurites are the "heirs of Patria", via Kylorin.
well some posts starting to become quite informative.
so Patria you say ? Are malakim nomads from deserts descendants of partia? soundrs refreshing. Lets hear more of this ..... :]
Well Patria comprised almost every human nation, I believe.
They're all derived from ancient Judeo-Christian groupings of angels and demons. So the "-im" is Hebrew and just refers to a plural.
They are mostly different types of biblical angels & demons. The 'im' suffix is simply a plural. Steve Jackson Games' game In Nomine used many of the same names for its characters, but Kael says they were developed independently.
-im is one of the Semitic plural suffixes (or at least Hebrew=>Biblical, and the mod is stated to have been "influenced by Judeo-Christian mythology", among other things). It is used, amongst other things, for ethnonyms, i.e. the Jews are really "Yehudim". That is derived from Judea, or "Yehuda", though ethnonyms could be derived from other things as well. Incidentally, if we go by my vague recollections of Hebrew and some random Arabic words, the Malakim are either the People of the Angel(s) or the People of the King(s), while the Calabim are the People of the Dog(s). Though very possibly I'm wrong.
But yes, what's with this Decius fellow? Probably either an archangel or another surviving pupil of Kylorin (I'm presently leaning towards the former).
I doubt he is either. My first guess is that he was just a strong member of the Overcouncil (and/or Undercouncil) who used this position to dominate multiple civilizations who nominally remained sovereign. Either that, or a military commander in a war where these civs worked together (against Auric? or Hyborem?)
Still, Bannor, Malakim and Calabim? That's a weird combination, though I suppose that of all the evil races the Calabim are the most cooperative.
Bannor and Calabim or Bannor and Malakim alliance aren't very odd, but Malakim and Calabim sure is.
When you defeat Decius he says something about having gone from being an outcast to a king (and will do so again). Maybe he lead one civ, was deposed, and then took over a rival?
I think he might be a commander against Hyborem. The Bannor are the most likely to take the fight to Hyborem, the Calabim get hurt the worst despite being evil by Armageddon and would like to retain their rule over their "cattle", and not sure about Malakim but I assume the leader of the over council wouldn't let Hyborem come in and disrupt all of their hard work.
Not that weird really. Why do you think its weird? They are all human. The Calabim just got vampiric lord "protectors". Malakim are just nomads with an elven king and the Bannor were one of the strongest empires in the Age of Magic.
All the human nations have their connections. Calabim, Sheaim, and Kuriotates are new nations, but the people come from the same nations as the people of Bannor, Kuriotates, Sheaim, and probably Malakim as well, etc.
Shh, don't reveal the secrets of all DMs.
Reading through the XML, I find Decius talks a lot about having been king of many nations, of being an exile, of having seen a lot, et cetera. I get the impression he's a skilled and experienced leader with the ability to charm, backstab, and earn his way to the top of any nation he finds. Sort of a professional travelling monarch. Why the Bannor, Malakim, and (most bizzarely) Calabim are his chosen "clients" is beyond me.
I suppose that all three are relatively fluid nations. The Malakim are enlightened and welcoming (EDIT: former) nomads. He could quickly prove his skills there, and earn his way into the trust of Varn Gosam himself. The Bannor value martial skill above all else; even a stranger, if he proved to be noble, honorable, and capable, could become a great and important figure. "But what about the Calabim? Aren't they a rigid caste system?" Aye, but the smartest and the fastest can join the Moroi (or however it's spelled) and, if they survive long enough to recieve the "gift," climb the ladder to the top. If Decius is as expirienced in dirty politics and staying alive as I expect, he'd get bit mighty fast, perhaps by trickery, and then start knocking off his fellow bloodsuckers at a rate that would make even the best vampire slayers gape.
But this leaves a few questions. I'll disregard the Kurioates and Grigori; there are many lore reasons the Decius I'm imagining would lead them, and others that argue he would not, but the gameplay problems are obvious. "What about the Doviello; if this theoretical Decius is such a nomadic tough guy, surely he'd rise to the top of Doviello society just as easily as the Bannor?" This does put a hole in my theory, aye. But look again at the chosen three. Two are definetly feudal nations; the cruel Calabim have clearcut hierarchy of vampires, Moroi, and serfs. The Bannor use a combination of feudal and military hierarchy. I know little of the Malakim lore, however. I'm choosing to assume, perhaps incorrectly, they have a hierarchical and/or feudal government as well. The Doviello tribes are a whole different beast. Can you imagine attempting to arrange them into feudal states with agricultural serfs? It'd be like trying to train wolves to work as sheep dogs. "OK, but I'm sure the Amurites wouldn't mind working for a professional monarch. Agricultural systems would fit him fine." Aye, but Decius hasn't got a drop of that old-time voodoo in him. This has both gameplay and lore implications. What would the Amurites be without being Arcane leaders? This is my answer to both lore and gameplay questions; both Amurite leaders are capable mages as well as politicians. Decius does not seem to have any magical skill whatsoever; I doubt a council of mages would like taking orders from a guy who can't even pull a rabbit out of a hat. "How about them Balseraphs? They're definetely a feudal system!" I can hardly see Decius leading them for long, however, without either fleeing in terror and/or frusteration, or getting killed.
Of course, this is my pet theory. I might be partially right, nearly right, on the money, or (most likely) a million miles away.
EDIT: I'm going to check Decius' preferred civics, see if that gives me any fuel or kills my mad rantings outright.
If I remember correctly, Valledia the Even doesn't have any magical ability either (or at least her magical powers are below average for their people. Her skills are in management, blackmail, etc.)
In the text for her "event" with Falamar, Valledia is specifically referred to as a "sorceress," and it's hinted that their time together may have involved some *ahem* creative uses of magic.
Of course, these may not be entirely canonical. I can easily believe that she's below average and makes up for it with political skill, but she can doubtless sling a spell or two to silence a complaining old mage whose brains have been fried by a few too many mind magic spells. Decius, from what I've seen, lacks that ability, and a sword just isn't as impressive to a bunch of people who consider magic a necessity.
EDIT: I actually remembered there was some discussion a while ago about this somewhere, that is, whether Valledia was actually magically skilled. I don't remember how it went in the end, but I think it was agreed that she was at least competent, although not necessarily excellent. As ever, I could be wrong.
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