Nox Noctis

[DarkxL0rd]

Only if they have Commando on their entire stack, including the Mages.

so basically any civ with the raider trait then?

 

[DarkxL0rd]

“It's fascinating to think that all around us there's an invisible world we can't even see. I'm speaking, of course, of the World of the Invisible Scary Skeletons.” ~ Jack Handy, philosopher of Hyll, speaking at the Evermore Olive Garden.

I rarely have used NN, and the few MP games I've played in had the NN player getting knocked out by someone else long before they gave me any trouble. The NN player did wreak havoc on the Clan of Embers civ though; caught those cats napping. But no invisibles reached our borders. Or at least I think they never reached them - someone was re-arranging the furniture at the palace while everyone was asleep, and I don't think it was Gilden Silveric.

But I understand the passion which you all argue for/against NN. At one time or another, who among us hasn't felt that we were being watched by unseen eyes in an empty temple hallway? Not me, thank Sucellus, but many have.

At times, on patrol in the woods, the sounds of the forest creatures stop and the tree songs fade, I'll wonder if our cousin Svartalfars are creeping ever closer to appear like wraiths from the trees wielding poisoned blades. More than once, I've given the Heya! alarm to my Fyrdwell and the deer-riders race off...we'll be back with a Druid or Mage to cast entanglement spells or call the lightning bolts from the sky.

P.S. We don't hug trees. The bark's all rough and scratchy and you get moss all over you if you do.

dude, you're hilarious. i love the bit about the re-arranging of the furniture. I wouldn't rule ole Gilden out. That hair... so Fabio-esque.

 

[Nefelia]

so basically any civ with the raider trait then?

Yep. Of all the traits leader possess, that one is the most troublesome for MP games, NN or not. One could try to counter that with careful road planning, but its still a pain in the ass, and one instance in which I'd very much like to see the enemy's movement on the approach to my territory.

 

[Onionsoilder]

Yep. Of all the traits leader possess, that one is the most troublesome for MP games, NN or not. One could try to counter that with careful road planning, but its still a pain in the ass, and one instance in which I'd very much like to see the enemy's movement on the approach to my territory.

I remember one game in particular I was Lanun fighting Doviello. In general, I had much stronger units, but I was getting owned. I'm not sure if the other guy planned it that way or if it was just bad luck, but I whenever I tried to attack his units, he would move his units - resulting in my units moving onto an empty tile. Since I couldn't attack him, he just slowly wore me down.

 

[Neomega]

The raider trait is extremely powerful. With haste, you are attacking cities from your borders with axemen or champions. Who cares about the assassins hiding? The owner of NN is losing cities.

Now, of course, darkxlord likes to use svartalfar, so he gets the best of both worlds.... but that doesn't mean NN is overpowered. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, Vanilla civ IV made commando only available after str 4 for a reason.

 

[Onionsoilder]

The raider trait is extremely powerful. With haste, you are attacking cities from your borders with axemen or champions. Who cares about the assassins hiding? The owner of NN is losing cities.

Now, of course, darkxlord likes to use svartalfar, so he gets the best of both worlds.... but that doesn't mean NN is overpowered. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, Vanilla civ IV made commando only available after str 4 for a reason.

Very good point. but if not Commando, then what?

 

[Neomega]

Very good point. but if not Commando, then what?

A special pillage command, that only eats 1/2 mp?

 

[Onionsoilder]

A special pillage command, that only eats 1/2 mp?

That could work. It would allow players to quickly pillage towns, and it would let 1 movement units pillage+move on the same turn.

 

[DarkxL0rd]

Now, of course, darkxlord likes to use svartalfar, so he gets the best of both worlds....

Umm, I'm one of the voices for nerfing NN by letting revelation, and units with "see invisible" work on NN units. Yeah I like the Svarts, but NN is an afterthought for me.

 

[Tasunke]

I, but for some civs it can be a crucial survival tactic. I mean ... everything is situational. But yes, Svarts are already good at defending (and having a good economy) so with them its kinda like )_)

still, since u cant make wonders do different things with different civs, then idk.

 

[Senethro]

I remember one game in particular I was Lanun fighting Doviello. In general, I had much stronger units, but I was getting owned. I'm not sure if the other guy planned it that way or if it was just bad luck, but I whenever I tried to attack his units, he would move his units - resulting in my units moving onto an empty tile. Since I couldn't attack him, he just slowly wore me down.

I think this was me and it was one of my favorite games of Doviello. Having Hasted Axemen stacks dance about a nice roaded territory, swooping down on the cities with insufficient defenders and running from the Lunatics/Stygs. I was losing more units than I was killing, but I'd captured a core city, razed two minor cities and the OO shrine city. You can lose lots of battles as long as you damage their economy sufficiently.

Raiders is underrated and lots of fun, but still not as powerful as Financial.

 

[Tasunke]

Perhaps Financial is stronger in SP ... but in MP raiders is, if not stronger, more annoying ... and can make people want to give up