[Official] Proposed Rule Change

DaveShack said:
I am categorically opposed to any rule which could result in a team's turn being skipped.
An effective turn timer of 24 will most likely have that result. IMO the absolute minimum is an effective timer of 48, and I'm tempted to up it to 72.
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Why? this is a team game, surely the best team should win and this means the team who can best play as a team and not the team that can sustain the interest of members during exorbitantly long turn times, these long turn times are only killing interest especially depending on the map there could be literally nothing to do for a period of time!

The reason why I have suggested the change is that currently there is no reason why turns should take any longer than 24 hours for the immediate future of the game, there is nothing that needs to be polled on a turn by turn basis.
 
Obviously, there is some reason that a team has not played quickly. You must respect their position on how to play the multi-team democracy game.

There is absolutely no difference between possibly losing a team because turns are too slow, and possibly losing a team because turns are too fast.
 
DaveShack said:
I am categorically opposed to any rule which could result in a team's turn being skipped.
An effective turn timer of 24 will most likely have that result. IMO the absolute minimum is an effective timer of 48, and I'm tempted to up it to 72.
Click to expand...

If that is the mindset why stop at 72? I mean, someone could potentially miss that, no? If we start down that path why not just have the turn end when it ends - when all teams have completed it... no turn timer.

If its not obvious I'm against this idea, but 72 hours seems as arbitrary a number as 128 or 256.

On the flip side, I often forget about a TV Show if the commercials are more then 3 minutes... point is that the pace of the game has to be factored in or we might as not have a turn timer at all.

I'm not dismissing the point that teams need time to come to a decision... likewise I don't think that "pace" should be dismissed as a point. Since both are valid points... how can we arrive at a decision?

Why is 72 the magic number? Why has 48 been decided on? Why is 24 to short? If this is a democratic game then lets vote on a number like everything else.
 
We did vote on the 48 hour game timer.

I do agree that deadlines are there for a reason. All MP games use a timer to make sure people are responsible enough to manage thier time and with such large teams they should find that time. I think if a team is lagging it might be good to give notice on what is the hold up but again with the timer ticking down
they should be able to figure out what to do.

We've. Had some debates as well in Team Sirius on where to move our unit and allow every one time enough to respond as not everyone is on the same time zone.
 
All of the previous democracy games run at CFC were under PBEM or sequential turns format, and consequently we regularly had a wait of a week or so even between the early turns (because everyone had to play in order). This is the first CFC multi-team democracy game where we've been using the simultaneous turn format, and we've already cut down the length between turns to a maximum of 2 days. While it's nice to get a turn finished faster than that sometimes, I hardly see how a maximum wait of 2 days between turns is "killing the game". Those of you who didn't play in the last democracy games don't know how lucky you are. ;)

In short, I see no reason to reduce the timer. If everyone is able to play in the first day, the turn will end early. Really I think we're trying to patch the wrong problem here - we should be encouraging activity and new members in the smaller teams, and reminding the teams (except Merlot I guess) that anyone should be able to play provided that the team has made a decision on a movement. :)
 
Indiansmoke said:
Are all you democratic teams voting on the issue?

Team Merlot wants to reduce it to 24 hours for now.
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Team CDZ obviously (since our captain started this thread) also wants to reduce to 24 hours for now.
 
Team Mavericks is voting on it.

My personal worry is to do with diplomacy. Right now we all have no reason to talk to one another, but once we start meeting each other there's going to be a lot of talking done. And diplomacy should be allowed to take its time - the diplomatic aspect is clearly one of the more defining pieces of a democracy game.

If we reduce the timer to 22 hours now, what will it take to extend it again? If two teams are the first to meet each other, those two teams might want more time, while the other four might be happy to keep going - clearly a majority vote at that point would be biased and quite unfair. It would also hold the potential of revealing spoiler information, e.g. all teams can figure out that those other two teams have met.

I think this issue needs to be resolved now, before we move to reduce the timer. My personal feeling is that if we reduce the timer now, any team should anonymously (via the game admins) have the right to ask for it to be extended again, and that wish should be automatically granted. That clearly requires that all teams agree to adhere to the spirit of the reduction, and not ask to extend the timer just because they wanted it longer in the first place. Tricky issue.
 
Lord Parkin said:
In short, I see no reason to reduce the timer. If everyone is able to play in the first day, the turn will end early. Really I think we're trying to patch the wrong problem here - we should be encouraging activity and new members in the smaller teams, and reminding the teams (except Merlot I guess) that anyone should be able to play provided that the team has made a decision on a movement. :)
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I agree with this and Sirius is voting as well, so far it seems unianmously for no change. I think the pace of the game has been going fine especially if the last game was a week per turn. Again not everyone is in the same time zone or has the same free time alotment to play the game and post on the forum. I think some people need to have a little more patience is all.
 
Team AMAZON has so far not put up a poll on the issue yet. But I will leave that up to Sommer.
 
Just a thought here, in regards to what Niklas says in his post - which is a very good point. A good idea might be to clarify this rule change into something akin to "The turn timer will be extended immediately to 48 hours again when one team encounters another team to allow for diplomatic discussions" ? :)
 
I suggest if we have to change the timer now that we change it back at 1 AD
 
No matter how it is done, if the timer changes, everyone will know that 2 other teams have made contact. That seems unfair. If you are the teams that meet first, why does your first contact get announced with an auspicious changing of the turn timer, but everyone else gets to meet in secret? Perhaps the teams that meet first wish to take advantage of their fortune and keep their meeting a secret.

Once everyone knows that contact has been made by others, they will be able to make adjustments in their plans to account for this vital info. Thay might accelerate their own efforts to meets others, whereas without this knowledge, they would have made no changes.
 
Considering the turns just started up again I see no need to change the timer, just play game guys.
 
Niklas said:
Team Mavericks is voting on it.

My personal worry is to do with diplomacy. Right now we all have no reason to talk to one another, but once we start meeting each other there's going to be a lot of talking done. And diplomacy should be allowed to take its time - the diplomatic aspect is clearly one of the more defining pieces of a democracy game.

If we reduce the timer to 22 hours now, what will it take to extend it again? If two teams are the first to meet each other, those two teams might want more time, while the other four might be happy to keep going - clearly a majority vote at that point would be biased and quite unfair. It would also hold the potential of revealing spoiler information, e.g. all teams can figure out that those other two teams have met.

I think this issue needs to be resolved now, before we move to reduce the timer. My personal feeling is that if we reduce the timer now, any team should anonymously (via the game admins) have the right to ask for it to be extended again, and that wish should be automatically granted. That clearly requires that all teams agree to adhere to the spirit of the reduction, and not ask to extend the timer just because they wanted it longer in the first place. Tricky issue.
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I don't think it should be granted automatically but voted on again however if there was a reason for the turn timer being 48 hours I am quite sure that people would agree, this is a game played for fun so obviously we do not want people not to have any. The problem is right now that there simply is no reason for it to be 48 hours and therefore may as well be 24.

Another option is that we agree to review the situation at turn 50 regardless of what is happening in the world with the option also to allow a revote at any other point. That way people can just tactically wait till turn 50 if it is an issue about giving away diplomacy etc.
 
I'm also not very happy about the pace so far, most teams seem like they get their moves done in under 6 hours, but we end up having to wait for one or two who take 30. This last turn seemed to be a bit faster. Hopefully this discussion will send the message that we'd really like to see people make these simple decisions quickly and get their moves in. I'll be voting to keep the timer as is because making someone loose a turn would not be good, and I expect that teams will be more concious of getting their warrior moves in without too much delay.
 
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