OK, so we found WMDs

[usarmy18]

This is true but republicans should fear apathy, I'm pretty apathetic towards them now, basically I feel that since they got the white house they have acted pretty much the same way the dems did for the previous 40 years of fairly consistent power mongering. This is much to my disappointment.

It's the lesser of two evils right now. The only options are the Republicans, who have also disappointed me in the past few years, or the Democrats, who are increasingly out in the left field going batshit crazy. I'm gonna stick with the Reps for now.

 

[CurtSibling]

Even if the US President was found to have lied...What would it prove?

Does anyone really entertain the idea that he could be held accountable?
He is untouchable, as he has the full power of the organs of US power in
the hands of the GOP. The Dems are impotent.

The fact is that the Allies are up to their necks in Iraq, and by the time
the dust has settled, and all the facts are known, Rummy and Dick will
be long deceased and Bush will be in his retirement ranch.

That is the reality.

.

 

[MobBoss]

Yes, yes you do have a serious reading comprehension problem.

Wow, nice rebuttal. I bet you are the ace on the debate team.

 

[ainwood]

Yes, yes you do have a serious reading comprehension problem.

Wow, nice rebuttal. I bet you are the ace on the debate team.

Moderator Action: Address the issue - not each other. That goes for both of you.

 

[Neomega]

Wow, nice rebuttal. I bet you are the ace on the debate team.

It was a figurative* use of the word "always".

*http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/figurative

I didn't mean they literally* were always wearing their gas masks.

*http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/literal

I certainly did not anticipate anyone would take it literally, and make the outrageous assumption that I thought soldiers at one point ate, slept and pissed with their gas masks on in the 120 degree desert.

A severe insult to my intelligence.

Originally Posted by Neomega
Soldiers are not wearing thier gas masks everywhere they go anymore. The obvious cause of failure of the weapon was it simply was not useable as a chemical weapon anymore....

but to clear up the point of my post

Originally Posted by Neomega
Soldiers are not wearing thier gas masks everywhere they go

As they had to suit up for the initial invasion, when it was thought Saddam would use chem weapons when they crossed the "red line".

Of course, they (our soldiers) only were told to suit up, once they got near the red line. I am not insinuating or assuming once soldiers crossed the Iraq-Kuwaiti border, they suited up in their chemical gear, and from then on out, were wearing gas masks.

Originally Posted by Neomega
anymore.

It is three years later, and most of the military command, if not all, no longer believe chemical weapons are a threat. Therefore, readiness to put on the gas mask is not stressed, and I am sure most soldiers, if not all, in Iraq, do not carry their gas masks at the ready, as they did when the invasion started.


Yes, I know, they are still trained to always be ready to put on their chemical weapons gear. But htey are trained to doa whoe lot of other stuff. The soldier has priorities, and right now, fear of chemical weapon attack is very low on thier list. Their training now primarily deals with identifying and destorying IEDs

Originally Posted by Neomega
The obvious cause of failure of the weapon

The soldiers in the article suffered no injuries form the sarin

Originally Posted by Neomega
was it simply was not useable as a chemical weapon anymore....

Using the logic from above, none of the soldiers in the humvee struck by the old sarin laced shells, had their gas masks on, yet they survived, this leads me to believe it was not their gas masks that saved them, but the dilapidated state of the shells that were detonated.


That was alot of extra typing to explain something I felt was quite clear in the flow of the discussion. If anyone wishes to dispute what I have written, please at least give me the benefit of the doubt, and try to understand what I was saying before assuming I am just some ******** civilian that ain't ever seen a pair of cammies or the history channel, or any footage or photos of American soldiers in Iraq.

Originally Posted by MobBoss
Got it?

For once?

 

[Leha]

Ahem...didn't intend to enter this thread, but....for the sake of truth.....

As a reservist of IDF I can state: constant readiness to conduct warfare in chemical and bio-hazard conditions is one of the highest priorities of the training of modern soldiers.

Edit: and keeping in mind Saddam liked toying with combat gas it wouldn't surprise me if coalition soldiers were on constant alert there.

 

[Arcades057]

Wow, someone said early on that this thread had no legs.

I still haven't seen anything in my local paper (Sun Sentinental) about this, which is weird. Not saying it's not there, just saying it's weird. I mean, hell, they gave a fricken tiger the front page today, the Heat the front page yesterday... You'd think this would be on the front page, if only to say "Lookit how stupid them Republicans is!"

 

[Neomega]

Ahem...didn't intend to enter this thread, but....for the sake of truth.....

As a reservist of IDF I can state: constant readiness to conduct warfare in chemical and bio-hazard conditions is one of the highest priorities of the training of modern soldiers.

Edit: and keeping in mind Saddam liked toying with combat gas it wouldn't surprise me if coalition soldiers were on constant alert there.

your post timed 20 minutes afrer my last edit.

In that edit I posted this little disclaimer

Yes, I know, they are still trained to always be ready to put on their chemical weapons gear. But they are trained to do a whole lot of other stuff. The soldier has priorities, and right now, fear of chemical weapon attack is very low on thier list. Their training now primarily deals with identifying and destroying IEDs:

 

[Neomega]

Wow, someone said early on that this thread had no legs.

I still haven't seen anything in my local paper (Sun Sentinental) about this, which is weird. Not saying it's not there, just saying it's weird. I mean, hell, they gave a fricken tiger the front page today, the Heat the front page yesterday... You'd think this would be on the front page, if only to say "Lookit how stupid them Republicans is!"

That's becasue it isn't news. The only news is Santorum is an idiot, and everybody already knew that.

 

[MobBoss]

As they had to suit up for the initial invasion, when it was thought Saddam would use chem weapons when they crossed the "red line".

Where exactly did you hear this? People I have talked to and soldiers blogs I have read mention nothing of putting an NBC suit on prior to invasion and "crossing the line".

Of course, they (our soldiers) only were told to suit up, once they got near the red line. I am not insinuating or assuming once soldiers crossed the Iraq-Kuwaiti border, they suited up in their chemical gear, and from then on out, were wearing gas masks.

Uh...you have obviously never tried to shoot a weapon in a gas mask. It is a serious inhibition to you to see or hit anything with a weapon. Once more, I find starting an invasion into Iraq wearing your full chemical suit plus mask to be extremely problematic and unlikely. Local temps preclude even wearing portions of the suit, even at night, for very long, so you generally only wear the suit if chemical attack is considered iminent. I wonder exactly who told you this information and/or where you heard it. It sounds extremely unlikely.

EDIT: Also, its doctrine to have NBC teams go ahead of the main body to use chem detectors mounted on humvees and such so that the main body does not have to wear all their gear. The scout-like NBC teams do wear all their gear minus the mask. If the alarms go off they don the masks exit the chem area back the way they came and report the location to the main body. This is what normally happens in the situation you describe - but I just cant see a mass invasion starting their assault in full MOPP-4 (which means the full suit + mask)....if they encountered any enemy at all they would be sitting ducks.

and I am sure most soldiers, if not all, in Iraq, do not carry their gas masks at the ready, as they did when the invasion started.

To my knowledge the pro mask is still part of the combat load, to be carried at all times, especially in a combat zone. If they make my ass carry it in the field back here in the USA you can be dang sure they carry it around in Iraq.

That was alot of extra typing to explain something I felt was quite clear in the flow of the discussion. If anyone wishes to dispute what I have written, please at least give me the benefit of the doubt, and try to understand what I was saying before assuming I am just some ******** civilian that ain't ever seen a pair of cammies or the history channel, or any footage or photos of American soldiers in Iraq.

Well, there is a bit more too it than watching it on the history channel.

 

[Neomega]

Where exactly did you hear this? People I have talked to and soldiers blogs I have read mention nothing of putting an NBC suit on prior to invasion and "crossing the line".

I saw it on the news during the first three weeks of the invasion, and Donald Rumsfeld himself said it.

Uh...you have obviously never tried to shoot a weapon in a gas mask. It is a serious inhibition to you to see or hit anything with a weapon. Once more, I find starting an invasion into Iraq wearing your full chemical suit plus mask to be extremely problematic and unlikely. Local temps preclude even wearing portions of the suit, even at night, for very long, so you generally only wear the suit if chemical attack is considered iminent. I wonder exactly who told you this information and/or where you heard it. It sounds extremely unlikely.

DID YOU READ THIS!!?!???! ---->>>>>>>>>:

I am not insinuating or assuming once soldiers crossed the Iraq-Kuwaiti border, they suited up in their chemical gear, and from then on out, were wearing gas masks.

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?????





How can you have possibly, STILL misinterpereted everything I just wrote?

Are you reading anything, or are you just being obtuse?

Well, there is a bit more too it than watching it on the history channel.

Really, what is your problem??? YOu are taking everything I am saying, saying I just said the opposite, and then attacking it!!! I cannot believe how obtuse you are being!!!!


You have been doing it this entire thread!!!!

You have missed the WHOLE POINT, WHICH WAS, THE SOLDIERS ARE NOT WEARING GAS MASKS!!!

HOW MUCH SIMPLER DO I HAVE TO MAKE IT FOR YOU!!!????

 

[MobBoss]

I saw it on the news during the first three weeks of the invasion, and Donald Rumsfeld himself said it.

Rofl. Got a link for it? News story? Anything? Besides your "memory"?

You have missed the WHOLE POINT, WHICH WAS, THE SOLDIERS ARE NOT WEARING GAS MASKS!!!

/boggle Isnt that what I have been saying?

 

[Neomega]

Rofl. Got a link for it? News story? Anything? Besides your "memory"?

What do you think?

Where were you during the first three weeks of the invasion?

were you watching the news?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0303/26/lol.23.html
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0303/22/se.13.html


Rumsfeld says it here, (NOTE THAT EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT).... you are the only person I met that thinks nobody wear their chem suits in the first three weeks of the invasion.


http://www.crooksandliars.com/stories/2006/05/04/transcriptOfRumsfeldAndMcgovern.html


Here's the video:

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/CNN-Rumsfeld-McGovern-Question.wmv

Listen to everybody laugh int he room when he says it... know why they are lauging... because they, like everyone else, knew that many people had to put on their suits.

 

[Neomega]

/boggle Isnt that what I have been saying?

NO, that is what I have been saying.

NOW THAT WE HAVE IT CLEAR THAT SOLDIERS ARE NOT WEARING GAS MASKS


when those old delapidated sarin fileld bombs went off on that IED, the reason why the Sarin bombs caused no damage....


Is not because the soldiers were wearing their gas masks. BEFORE YOU TRY AND SAY I JUST SAID THEY WERE... read... WERE NOT wearing... WERE NOT wearing their gas masks. SOOOOOOOO...

their gasmasks WERE NOT what saved them from injury.


WHAT SAVED THEM FROM INJURY, was the fact that the sarin bombs --->>>>>>
--->>>>>>

--->>>>>>

--->>>>WERE NOT USABLE

 

[Neomega]

Next you are going to ask me if I have proof we dropped bombs on Iraqi targets, or do I have proof that people are laying bombs on the side of the road... this is common knowledge, dude.

BTW, if you need your memory joggled....

the "red line" was a line that American commanders feared was about 20 miles about Bagdhad, and they feared that the Iraqi generals were waiting for them to come in range, and then they would launch chemical weapons.

NO, I won't provide you a link, you can look it up yourself. I am tired of doing your homework for you.

 

[skadistic]

NO,

WHAT SAVED THEM FROM INJURY, was the fact that the sarin bombs --->>>>>>
--->>>>>>

--->>>>>>

--->>>>WERE NOT USABLE

Actualy the Sarin part failed because the idiots that wired it to go boom did it wrong. Most likely the fools didn't know it was a bio-shell.

 

[MobBoss]

What do you think?

Where were you during the first three weeks of the invasion?

were you watching the news?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0303/26/lol.23.html

From this link:

We also saw a lot of other things. We had a missile fly over our heads. We had bomb -- we had bomb shelter calls. We had bunker calls, gas alarm calls. We had to put on these gas masks. You saw me reporting with the gas mask on several times.

That was no joke: 16 times in 12 hours, having to do that, sometimes sitting there for an hour at a time, those were all new things, clearly, to me, and something that I saw the troops actually going through.

BLITZER: Is it technically possible for a doctor, a surgeon, one of these Devil Docs, and you're a surgeon yourself, to operate on someone wearing these gas masks?

GUPTA: You know, we saw them actually do that very thing. In fact, the helo call came in, that means several patients were in bound. And just before the helo landed, there was a gas call.

So everybody put on their gas masks, the surgeons all running out to the helicopters with their gas masks and their MOPP suits, I should add, as well, which is very heavy, very hot, especially in the middle of the desert. Picking up the patients, taking them into the operating room and starting the procedures with the full gear on.

I think that is pretty obvious that they did not have their gear on prior to the gas call. No where in there does it state they kept their stuff on all the time.

Rumsfeld says it here, (NOTE THAT EVERYONE IN THE AUDIENCE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT).... you are the only person I met that thinks nobody wear their chem suits in the first three weeks of the invasion

Two points. My first point was that people dont wear their chem suits all the time.....they only don them when they get a chem alert. Second point, the Sec Def has no friggin clue what your avg joe soldier is wearing on the line. He might know the kit, but he isnt going to know when/where/why/how. That decision is made WAY below his level on a tactical level. I have never, EVER said that nobody wore their chem suits...I am merely refuting YOUR allegation that they friggin wore them ALL THE TIME.

 

[Neomega]

Actualy the Sarin part failed because the idiots that wired it to go boom did it wrong. Most likely the fools didn't know it was a bio-shell.

Are you sure about that? I didn't read in the story why it failed, I just read that no injuries were caused by the sarin. (I could be wrong, I just skimmed the story)

 

[Neomega]

I think that is pretty obvious that they did not have their gear on prior to the gas call. No where in there does it state they kept their stuff on all the time.

OHHHH MY GAWWDDDD!!!!


I already explained that!!!!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4197690&postcount=405

Two points. My first point was that people dont wear their chem suits all the time.....they only don them when they get a chem alert.

I already explained that


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4197690&postcount=405

Second point, the Sec Def has no friggin clue what your avg joe soldier is wearing on the line. He might know the kit, but he isnt going to know when/where/why/how. That decision is made WAY below his level on a tactical level. I have never, EVER said that nobody wore their chem suits...I am merely refuting YOUR allegation that they friggin wore them ALL THE TIME.

I already explained that


http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4197690&postcount=405


I may have said they "were not always wearing them anymore", but I didn't literally mean it. All I was saying is no soldiers fear chemical weapons in Iraq like they did in the first 3 weeks of the war.

I have said this from 15 angles of explanation, and yet you still ask me to explain it one more time.

Is that clear, or do you need it form a 16th angle of explanation?


I do not understand why it is so hard for you to grasp what I am saying.

 

[skadistic]

Are you sure about that? I didn't read in the story why it failed, I just read that no injuries were caused by the sarin. (I could be wrong, I just skimmed the story)

Positive....