[GS] Ok so what do Rock Bands actually do?

[Wandering_Dandelion]

Here are a part of my tests. I deleted some repeated data.

 

[Victoria]

By the way, I guess there may be a sheet like below

I just found this in units.xml... thanks for your stats

LEGENDS_OF_ROCK PerformanceStars="6" BaseProbability="17" GainsLevel="true" ExtraPromotion="true" TourismBomb="200" AlbumSales="200"
HEADLINERS PerformanceStars="5" BaseProbability="15" GainsLevel="true" ExtraPromotion="true" TourismBomb="0" AlbumSales="150"
RISING_STARS PerformanceStars="4" BaseProbability="13" TourismBomb="150" AlbumSales="100"
OPENING_ACT PerformanceStars="3" BaseProbability="11" TourismBomb="-25" AlbumSales="50"
CREATIVE_DIFFERENCES PerformanceStars="2" BaseProbability="9" TourismBomb="100" AlbumSales="0" Dies="true"
AGING_ROCKERS PerformanceStars="1" BaseProbability="7" TourismBomb="-25" AlbumSales="0" Dies="true"

 

[Wandering_Dandelion]

I just found this in units.xml

Well...Seems like that I need to see an ophthalmologist. At least I found the link between the album and result. Not completely useless stats. Thanks for your data. So the only question is how these "BaseProbability" work?

 

[ExemplarVoss]

One of the issues I have with the rock bands is they make no sense. They're beneficial to foreign tourism, but your rock bands are going to a foreign country and having concerts on their domestic sites.

Conceptually, the Beatles are going to New York and LA and encouraging tourists to visit American amphitheatres and arenas. It shouldn't bring any tourists at all to London or York.

Just a weird gamey sense of cognitive dissonance.

 

[Uberfrog]

Here is the results from the beginning of my playing today. I managed to hit a Greek city with two concerts in two turns with the same band. This is the Level 3 Band Tyrian Purple with the +2 on Wonders promotion, performing in each case on a Wonder. This promotion is great for bombarding people like Pericles, who has many Wonders in the same city, allowing concerts on successive turns (also good for turning cities independent if you get the Indie Rock loyalty bomb). I am Dido, obviously.

Spoiler Results :

Turn 319 - Before Rock Band
Pericles: 550 Domestic, 97/584 Visiting (324 current, 34,879 lifetime)

Dido: 583 Domestic, 67/551 Visiting

Turn 319 - After Rock Band (5750 Tourism, 4th tier)
Pericles: 550 Domestic, 98/601 Visiting (324 current, 40,954 lifetime)

Dido: 600 Domestic, 73/550 Visiting

Turn 320 - Before Rock Band
Pericles: 553 Domestic, 99/609 Visiting (324 current, 41,278 lifetime)

Dido: 608 Domestic, 73/554 Visiting

Turn 320 - After Rock Band (6500 Tourism, 2nd tier)
Pericles: 549 Domestic, 99/609 Visiting (324 current, 47,778 lifetime)

Dido: 608 Domestic, 73/554 Visiting

Overall, whether by boosting me or hitting him, his progress towards the CV was completely neutralised by me spamming him with rock bands.

I just finished this game up now... Diplomatic Victories are sloooow, turn 394. I ended up having to capture carbon in nearly every city to get enough influence to drown out the rest of the AIs. I had long since researched everything (including the crucial Seasteads and Carbon Capture). In the end I had almost given up bored, and had my Alpha Centauri ship well on the way. The Diplomatic Victory passed the same turn as the rocket would have hit 50 ly. Because the World Congress happens right at the start of the turn, it meant I just got the Diplo Victory and never have to do this again (at least until they make it more tolerable).

 

[kaltorak]

One of the issues I have with the rock bands is they make no sense. They're beneficial to foreign tourism, but your rock bands are going to a foreign country and having concerts on their domestic sites.

Conceptually, the Beatles are going to New York and LA and encouraging tourists to visit American amphitheatres and arenas. It shouldn't bring any tourists at all to London or York.

Just a weird gamey sense of cognitive dissonance.

I understand your reasoning but dont agree. The bands make the country more famous and popular. Do you think all the US movies, singers and bands have nothing to do with how much ppl want to visit the US?
If I would attend an awesome concert from a band from a not very known country, it would surely spark some interest about that country

 

[Victoria]

how these "BaseProbability" work?

I have been testing level 0 units only playing in campuses (different targets provide different tourism levels)
I have been logging the results for each call against the random number rolled (rand_calls.csv)
I'll see what the spread is like compared to the rand calls....

 

[Uberfrog]

I understand your reasoning but dont agree. The bands make the country more famous and popular. Do you think all the US movies, singers and bands have nothing to do with how much ppl want to visit the US?
If I would attend an awesome concert from a band from a not very known country, it would surely spark some interest about that country

You only have to go to Liverpool or Memphis to see that rock n'roll tourism is a big deal.

Conceptually, the Beatles are going to New York and LA and encouraging tourists to visit American amphitheatres and arenas. It shouldn't bring any tourists at all to London or York.

On a related note, the Abbey Road studios has a live webcam where you can see direct evidence to the contrary: https://www.abbeyroad.com/crossing

 

[Victoria]

This whole "visiting my country" thing is just the simple mechanic in place for what is called a culture victory. As in your country now prefers my culture. That is clearly the aim of a cultural victory... the russians are wearing blue jeans and listening to elvis.
You could argue art in your art museums is not even art of your country... That the Mona Lisa will make them visit France not you.... If you take a CV too literally you start falling down very large holes unless you get a good grip of what culture means.
Language, music, art, sport... these things are the modern meaning for culture Civ is trying to use.
One could argue that a welsh settlement using greek pottery in 5000 BC was being influenced by greek culture but this is a messy end of it.

 

[Victoria]

OK I have most of the tourism values... The base value you get playing a venue then has a TouristBomb valued (as a % of base) added to it.
So the formula is venue + (venue*TouristBomb%) + (venue*album Sales%)
if you play a wonder (1000 tourism) and you are aging rockers you will get 750 tourism. 1000 + (1000*-25%)
if you play a Ferris wheel (250 tourism) and you are Headliners aging rockers you will get 250 tourism. 250 + (250*0%) = 250 + Record Sales
Record sales are cumulative tourism based on previous record sales.

LEGENDS_OF_ROCK TourismBomb="200" AlbumSales="200"
HEADLINERS TourismBomb="0" AlbumSales="150"
RISING_STARSTourismBomb="150" AlbumSales="100"
OPENING_ACT TourismBomb="-25" AlbumSales="50"
CREATIVE_DIFFERENCES TourismBomb="100" AlbumSales="0"
AGING_ROCKERS TourismBomb="-25" AlbumSales="0"

Venue Values
1000: World Wonder
750: Stadium, Broadcast Center, Film Studio, Aquatics Center
500: University, Madrasa, Shipyard
250: Arena, Ferris Wheel, Amphitheater, Marae, Tlachtli

So CREATIVE_DIFFERENCES means it was a good concert but they broke up before they made any album sales.
HEADLINERS was maybe a bad concert but great reviews which lead to great album sales.

Now we just need the % chance of each.
@Wandering_Dandelion can you run results including randcalls via an LUA? It is a pain for me to do this all manually through the game and check the logs.
Looking at the stats I have done
6 stars is probably 1 %
5 stars is about 10%
4 stars is about 15
3 stars is about 20%
2 stars is about 20%
1 star is about 20%

And does anyone have an idea of the influence of "number of album sold" ?

Hopefully the above makes this clear that album sales will increase the tourism of your next concert. Earlier concerts rely on venue, later ones rely more on album sales. (if the formula is correct)

 

[Victoria]

@Uberfrog do you have any idea what your album sales were when you did those 2 concerts... the tourism output is indicating album sales are venue * album sales %

Turn 319 - After Rock Band (5750 Tourism, 4th tier)
1000 + (1000*150) = 2500
You got 5750 but as you are level 3 you probably have about 300 -400 album sales ... 5750-2500=3250 which looks like 325 Album sales.. but there is no 25 in the choices.

 

[Uberfrog]

@Uberfrog do you have any idea what your album sales were when you did those 2 concerts... the tourism output is indicating album sales are venue * album sales %

Turn 319 - After Rock Band (5750 Tourism, 4th tier)
1000 + (1000*150) = 2500
You got 5750 but as you are level 3 you probably have about 300 -400 album sales ... 5750-2500=3250 which looks like 325 Album sales.. but there is no 25 in the choices.

Sure. Typical Firaxis and their opaque mechanics.

The concert on T319 got 50 albums (it was an Opening Act), the one on T320 got 150 (Headliners).

 

[kaltorak]

Typical Firaxis and their opaque mechanics.

Only since civ5

 

[Victoria]

The concert on T319 got 50 albums (it was an Opening Act), the one on T320 got 150 (Headliners).

I meant if you looked at your band before the concert they would have had a certain amount of albums already

 

[Uberfrog]

I meant if you looked at your band before the concert they would have had a certain amount of albums already

Righto. I believe it was 500 at the start of T319 and 550 on T320.

 

[Victoria]

Nice, that indicates that level is included in albums somewhere are you were level 3., cheers

A little bug in testing

However my band Cheap dragons (no I did not choose the name!) looks like it can confirm that the album sales are a %multiplier of a venue in addition to the star rating.

Basically because they are now at 250 album sales ... if they play another campus they will get for album sales an additional 1250 tourism (500*250%).. which means they are getting more off their album sales than the site. Level seems not to matter but I will test more.

However on looking things are now very confusing. I have a level 2 band with 1 promoition so perhaps the 2 are not directly connected...or there is a bug

 

[Victoria]

I played around a bit and got the published loss statistics

Level 1 = 50% chance of the band breaking up
Level 2 = 37% chance
Level 3 = 26% chance
Level 4 = 16% chance
Level 5 = 9% chance

I am going to keep an eye on promotions and levels because they seem to be different from each other
Also based on what Io have seen it would make the best chance just to play wonders as much as possible.
However this is one I cultured on a +2 for theaters and now playing wonders the album sails are rocketing it.

 

[Lord Lakely]

The AI does indeed use Rock Bands:

Odd that Frelenor decided to use them in this game though since I turned CV off

 

[Brutus2]

Thank you for confirming some of my suspicions. I was wondering why my reggae band was not able to play at any of Kupe's water parks and now I see that you can't play an "empty" district, it requires a specific building.

A couple questions just to make sure I'm understanding...

1. Assuming you have no promotions for a specific district, are wonders are always the best choice?

2. Even if you have a promotion for a specific location is it better to switch over to playing wonders at some point?

3. Are the +2 promotions really worth it? How much better is your chance of success for a level 1 band playing a building with the matching promotion vs just playing a wonder with the base 50% chance of success?



Thanks to all of you who do the research to figure all this stuff out, it is appreciated!

 

[Wandering_Dandelion]

However on looking things are now very confusing. I have a level 2 band with 1 promoition so perhaps the 2 are not directly connected...or there is a bug

I do think this is a bug. According to the UNIT.xml, it is impossible that "GainsLevel" =1 and "ExtraPromotion"=0.

can you run results including randcalls via an LUA?

I'll do it on the train. I'll take a train for nearly 10 hours hours later, so I'm afraid that I can't give my result to you until 30 hours later.