On Duterte

[sophie]

You know, all the support you give is actually great and I admire it, but it's completely irrelevant to the discussion and derailing the actual topic. You helping those children doesn't make Duterte less of a child murderer. And of course it's not just the child murders, often times those abhorrent "dealers" you despise so much are parents, too, so their children end up as orphans.. And get sucked into the street life.

Unless he is Duterte all this time!

 

[CavLancer]

Foiled again!

 

[Berzerker]

you seem to equate drugs with the high crime rates, clearly some drug users commit crimes but the drug users are not responsible for the cartels and corruption.

thats a self inflicted wound

your politicians banned drugs and they are responsible for the results of their laws, they made your country less safe and more corrupt - they paved the way for El Savior to "solve" a problem the state created.

 

[CavLancer]

Sure, someone needing a fix so they commit a robery has nothing to do with drugs, its the politicians fault. Complete coincidence that the crime rate nationwide is down. That's another reason I doubt that children are being targeted, doesn't show in the crime stats. Plus, I walk down the street in some places and kids will ask for money still, don't seem scared...

 

[Berzerker]

Sure, someone needing a fix so they commit a robery has nothing to do with drugs, its the politicians fault.

The politicians are responsible for the consequences of their laws... If drug prohibition doubles homicide rates and expands corruption (both of our drug wars did that) then the politicians have made us less safe.

Complete coincidence that the crime rate nationwide is down. That's another reason I doubt that children are being targeted, doesn't show in the crime stats. Plus, I walk down the street in some places and kids will ask for money still, don't seem scared...

I heard a bunch of people have been getting killed there, maybe your stats dont include them. What was your crime rate before drug prohibition?

 

[CavLancer]

There's a chart in one of the vids in the OP.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Sure, someone needing a fix so they commit a robery has nothing to do with drugs, its the politicians fault. Complete coincidence that the crime rate nationwide is down. That's another reason I doubt that children are being targeted, doesn't show in the crime stats. Plus, I walk down the street in some places and kids will ask for money still, don't seem scared...

You are willfully ignoring his point that if there was a legal way to get these drugs then no one would even have to stage an armed robbery. And before you start an outcry about the end of society, please take into account that dozens of western countries are already supplying Heroin to junkies legally. They control the environment, they control the amount, they make sure the needle is clean and they often help the drug user rehabilitate. Clearly you will agree that this is a more humane solution that just killing everyone who has somehow come in contact with drugs?

Complete coincidence that the crime rate nationwide is down. That's another reason I doubt that children are being targeted, doesn't show in the crime stats.

That's a bold faced lie. Murder rate in the Phillipines is up by more than 50%. Crime rate can be down while murder rate goes up, I hope this is not too complicated to understand.. How can you just sit there and say that "it doesn't show in the crime statistic"? What do you get out of lying, especially something that a google search can refute? I just don't understand it..

http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/12/19/16/pnp-crime-rate-down-but-murder-rate-up
http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2016/09/17/1624543/editorial-homicide-rate

 

[Berzerker]

There's a chart in one of the vids in the OP.

there aint no chart in the OP showing crime rates before drug prohibition

but one of his 55 accomplishments was banning karaoke after 10 pm

 

[CavLancer]

That is actually super popular around these parts. :b:

 

[Berzerker]

was karaoke banned after 10 pm to protect the children?

 

[CavLancer]

If you were to get familiar with the inconsiderable skills of these folks you would understand its for the sake of all the rest of us... It seems the less ability the have the more they love to sing. No, that was an act of mercy, nothing less.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

you seem to equate drugs with the high crime rates, clearly some drug users commit crimes but the drug users are not responsible for the cartels and corruption.

Oh yes, they are. Supply is redundant without demand. Without prospective customers, the illicit drug trade would have little reason to exist. Because there is high demand for illicit drugs, cartels produce and compete via any means necessary to distribute the product. In the end, when a person considers the newly-purchased illegal substances in his hands, he is looking at many crimes, up to and including murder, which led to that product, from production to distribution.

A person should not conveniently trick himself he's not participating in that cycle. He is the demand side of organized crime.

 

[Bugfatty300]

In my experience anti-drug vigilantes are invariably proxies of established and organized criminal groups. The vigilantes do the dirty work while those criminal leaders and their cadres remain protected by wealth and political status.

The truth is that vigilantes "cleaning" the streets are doing the same job that rival gangs already do: Murder drug dealers.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

So, in other words, if CavLancer had a voting right in the Phillipines (might be the case, I don't know the law), and he decided to vote for Duterte, that would then in turn mean he is participating in the cycle of mass killings and child murder? Anyway, I actually agree with your statement AppleDumplingHead, but I still feel like we have to differentiate between Cartel heads, death squads, dealers and users, because all of them are involved in a different manner.

 

[CavLancer]

Nah I would not have voted for him. Didn't vote in the US election either, nobody worth voting for and I never vote against anybody.

 

[Berzerker]

If you were to get familiar with the inconsiderable skills of these folks you would understand its for the sake of all the rest of us... It seems the less ability the have the more they love to sing. No, that was an act of mercy, nothing less.

I was thinking maybe the early riser vote made its voice heard

Oh yes, they are. Supply is redundant without demand.

Supply and demand were doin just fine before the cartels and corruption... Prohibition created them.

Without prospective customers, the illicit drug trade would have little reason to exist.

Who made it illicit? Aren't they responsible for the results of making it illicit?

Because there is high demand for illicit drugs, cartels produce and compete via any means necessary to distribute the product. In the end, when a person considers the newly-purchased illegal substances in his hands, he is looking at many crimes, up to and including murder, which led to that product, from production to distribution.

That process started with a law... A 3rd party decided they didn't like the peaceful transactions between suppliers and demanders so they stepped in and threatened them with violence - they started a war on people minding their own business. Budweiser and Miller are not shooting up our streets over market share. They did at one time, back when booze was "illicit".

A person should not conveniently trick himself he's not participating in that cycle. He is the demand side of organized crime.

Who handed the supply side to organized crime? Do my purchases of tobacco or alcohol make me responsible for black market violence in countries that banned them. So much of the stuff in our stores was made by Chinese people living in terrible conditions, if they're jumping out a window do I blame consumers? Black market violence began with the Prohibitionist, not the user...

 

[Agent327]

Budweiser and Miller are not shooting up our streets over market share. They did at one time, back when booze was "illicit".

I think you have Budweiser and Miller confused with Al Capone and Lucky Luciano.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

Who handed the supply side to organized crime? Do my purchases of tobacco or alcohol make me responsible for black market violence in countries that banned them. So much of the stuff in our stores was made by Chinese people living in terrible conditions, if they're jumping out a window do I blame consumers? Black market violence began with the Prohibitionist, not the user...

Two things to this.

Some actions/materials are deemed "illegal" because the alternative is to legitimize the activity/use. When people make a rule, they are fully in the knowledge people are going to do it anyway, there are many people who believe "rules are meant to be broken". Not all people agree that ready availability to unprescribed pharmaceuticals is some kind of human right. There are adverse effects to the individual and society when the practice becomes rampant, and, unless a doctor has decided an individual "needs" them, life is just fine, exactly the same, without them.

Regardless of an individual's take on the matter, the federal government has deemed (x) illegal. A sovereign state has this right to make these decisions. That responsibility lies with with law makers. That's part of the way we define what is a "sovereignty". That rule, whatever that rule is at the time, becomes the legitimate baseline, against which all other actions are measured. Fortunately, the USA isn't a despotism, there are procedures in place, and protected, wherein the public has the right to challenge such rules if they find them to be inordinate. It seems people are in the process of doing this with marijuana, and I think that's fine, even great. Nothing like this happens overnight, though, it takes time. Doing things like this the proper way is the best way.

 

[Agent327]

Ah, where are the times that the British empire could simply export opium to China...

The problem with drugs is not that they're bad. The problem is that killing middlemen and arresting cartel bosses does nothing to stop the demand for drugs that give these people a living. Making drugs illegal simply makes the business more profitable. This is why Prohibition didn't work - and never could work: it ignored the demand side and the supply side. And gave us the mafia myth, which resulted in fun movies and games.

 

[Phrossack]

I leave this place for a month and come back to find that it's A-okay with vocally endorsing murder (by a so-called Christian, no less). What's next, Christians getting to make threads extolling the merits of gang rape?

What is wrong with this place?