Online petition for an updated Civ III editor

[Mirc]

To take a break from griping for a minute, I have some technical questions -

If we were to succeed (get the rights, do the work and end up with a NEW AND IMPROVED version), what exactly is possible? An event editor, additional terrains, more civs - all of these would be great - but are they all possible? From a progammer's perspective?

I'm just interested to know what's practical.
(ignoring the fact that this whole idea might be a prolonged pipedream)

Additional terrain and more civs are probably EXTREMELY easy to do. Event editor will probably need to be programmed from scratch, so it's harder. But possible, clearly.

 

[Ozymandias]

To take a break from griping for a minute, I have some technical questions -

If we were to succeed (get the rights, do the work and end up with a NEW AND IMPROVED version), what exactly is possible? An event editor, additional terrains, more civs - all of these would be great - but are they all possible? From a progammer's perspective?

I'm just interested to know what's practical.
(ignoring the fact that this whole idea might be a prolonged pipedream)

In an ideal world - one in which we've obtained access to the code - IMHO the critical bit would be the APIs: "Application Programming Interfaces" which are "standardized handshakes" to other chunks of code (like an editor). I would definitely want to see those poured over with a fine-toothed comb to see what might be realistically accomplished without having to bust into the main code - if the APIs passed muster, then I'd say take it from there and get a walk-through of the main code.

All of this would involve NDAs ("Non-Disclosure Agrements") and TakeTwo being willing to part with someone for a few days to walk us through what's been done (e.g., what are the Boolean forms of AI algorithms) and what, in their view, might possibly be done.

-Oz

 

[Ozymandias]

Additional terrain and more civs are probably EXTREMELY easy to do. Event editor will probably need to be programmed from scratch, so it's harder. But possible, clearly.

I'm sorry to have to disagree with you there: if "hooks" for events aren't already in place to integrate an external events editor, then it would be a very, very large effort to add them. (I wouldn't give up hope entirely though - Heavens only know what leftovers might be in there from Civ2 - BTW, does anybody know if C3 was a complete rewrite or are parts of the code and/or algorithms lifted from C2, perhaps lying dormant in the C3 code?)

-Oz

 

[Mirc]

I'm sorry to have to disagree with you there: if "hooks" for events aren't already in place to integrate an external events editor, then it would be a very, very large effort to add them. (I wouldn't give up hope entirely though - Heavens only know what leftovers might be in there from Civ2 - BTW, does anybody know if C3 was a complete rewrite or are parts of the code and/or algorithms lifted from C2, perhaps lying dormant in the C3 code?)

-Oz

So how does this disagree with what I said? That's exactly what I said, that it's harder.

And I think Civ3 might have some leftovers from Civ2... but I'm not sure.

 

[Ozymandias]

So how does this disagree with what I said? That's exactly what I said, that it's harder.

And I think Civ3 might have some leftovers from Civ2... but I'm not sure.

Sorrry if I wasn't clear - I was basicallly "upgrading" "difficult' to "effectively impossible."

-And certain holdovers from C2 (like unimplemented event triggers) would be nice.

-Oz

 

[Blue Monkey]

You guys keep mentioning talking to a programmer from the Civ3 project. Are you aware that Brad Oliver was a regular poster on the Civ3 Mac subforum? He was a key programmer in the Mac port, and went so far as to give us a patch he worked on in his own time. If you guys can avoid spamming him so badly that he disappears completely his advice might be a potential resource.

 

[T.A JONES]

Sorry Brad if I spammed you. please help.

 

[flamescreen]

I'm sorry to have to disagree with you there: if "hooks" for events aren't already in place to integrate an external events editor, then it would be a very, very large effort to add them. (I wouldn't give up hope entirely though - Heavens only know what leftovers might be in there from Civ2 - BTW, does anybody know if C3 was a complete rewrite or are parts of the code and/or algorithms lifted from C2, perhaps lying dormant in the C3 code?)

-Oz

According to Soren Johnson interview for the Civ1-4 bundle, they used for C3 the code of C2, so there MUST be a lot of leftovers. I don't know if they'd be usable though. Maybe they just left them there as garbage and were just adding code for what they wanted to do with C3

 

[Ares de Borg]

Some other features to dream of:

COMBAT ALTITUDE (low/middle/high) - to give planes certain levels of operation (e.g., a WW1 fighter can't intercept a high-flying bomber from the 1960s)

SIZE / WEIGHT : for transportable units. A tank that's too heavy could only be delivered by very large airplanes or ship. And do I want to take two tanks with me or six infantry for the same weight?

Just dreaming...

 

[Ozymandias]

Some other features to dream of:

COMBAT ALTITUDE (low/middle/high) - to give planes certain levels of operation (e.g., a WW1 fighter can't intercept a high-flying bomber from the 1960s)

SIZE / WEIGHT : for transportable units. A tank that's too heavy could only be delivered by very large airplanes or ship. And do I want to take two tanks with me or six infantry for the same weight?

Just dreaming...

And dreaming well My immediate ex-programmer's instinct for your second idea would be to have a "base" unit size for transport purposes, with units being whole number multiples of that number (e.g., Spearman = 1; Armor = 4) and transports limited (as usual) in their carrying capacity. This works well both ways, so that, e.g., a galley wouldn't be able to carry an armor unit.

-Oz

 

[Steph]

And dreaming well My immediate ex-programmer's instinct for your second idea would be to have a "base" unit size for transport purposes, with units being whole number multiples of that number (e.g., Spearman = 1; Armor = 4) and transports limited (as usual) in their carrying capacity. This works well both ways, so that, e.g., a galley wouldn't be able to carry an armor unit.
-Oz

Do you mean, the good old idea I had for SSS first unit editor?
Where units have "load classes"

 

[Ozymandias]

Do you mean, the good old idea I had for SSS first unit editor?
Where units have "load classes"

Yeah. That. Load "classes" with each unit equaling a whole number, so that, e.g., Armor might take up as much space as 4 Spearmen.

BTW Steph, how long do you think SSS is going to take? (I know, no time in the very near future) but you are very good about posting teasers for it.

,

Oz

 

[Steph]

Am I? Just in hope to get more support

 

[Stargate]

try to make a CIV IV style systems in upgraded CIV III editor.
example 1. units need special buildings to build (not automatic every turns)
example 2. civic government systems "needed most"
example 3. change religion like government systems.

 

[Steph]

Yeah. That. Load "classes" with each unit equaling a whole number, so that, e.g., Armor might take up as much space as 4 Spearmen.
Oz

By the way, that's not exactly how it's supposed to work in SSS.
I plan to have limits for each class of units, in number and size.
Like an aicraft carrier can carry Three "aircraft class" units, size max = 2 (so it can carry F18 but bot B52), and 1 infantry unit, size max = 1 (it could carry a marines battalion, but not a full infantry division), etc.
So if you have a galley fleet that can carry 4 spearmen, it may not carry 1 armor. The ships need to be able to carry armor.

 

[Powerzilla]

I agree with this petition

I vote yes

 

[DragonBird]

Update! It would be cool when your working on a mod that the terrain you've programmed and units and resources would show.

 

[Stormrage]

... what do you mean.. show? Placing things on a map in the editor, is that what you are talking about?

 

[cubsfan6506]

I would be interested in this a ship has to dock every x amount of turns. But could also dock in other nations ports. ALso sell the right to build air bases.

 

[Virote_Considon]

I would be interested in this a ship has to dock every x amount of turns. But could also dock in other nations ports.

Like the Aircraft "Fuel" in Civ2, and a Dial per unit which states the amount of time out of a city before it uses fuel?