Open marriages

I've known of a few people who have been able to make that sort of arrangement work over the long term.

I've known of many more who have tried it and eventually suffered a crash-and-burn sort of situation.
 
i can see an open marriage working if that was the original plan and/or if they have always had an open relationship. I just do not see it ever particularly working as some cowardly misguided bandage being applied to a wounded relationship.
 
A young professional unmarried female marriage counselor once told me that if sex becomes a problem in marriage -- men always lose. :dunno:

Talking to hypothetical "gym instructor" like two reasonable men could be the first step towards solution. Phrases like "What if it happens to the mother of your child and your wife when you get any of those" may move hearts of many adherents of healthy living.
 
Your beloved wife has started having sex with another, much more attractive man. She asked beforehand and you reluctantly agreed to it.

You shouldn't have agreed to it. Now that you have - you've got to deal with the situation as it exists.

Open marriages can work, but they aren't for everyone. If it isn't for you - don't agree to it in the first place.

I know "hindsight is 20/20" and this thread isn't specifically about you, but if I was married and my wife asked me if I want to alter the terms of our relationship so that she could have sex with other men - I would tell her "Hell no". Some people would be fine with it - but why say "Yes" if you're not one of them?
 
Well I think its pretty clear the yes in this situation was a desperation move to save the sinking marriage. Hope was probably "oh if I say yes this will just be a phase and then we will get back to normal".
 
Mistakes are made. A lot of people think they are fine with things and then it turns out they really aren't after all.

Well, that's true, but such a major modification to the relationship should take a lot of thinking and a lot of good communication from both marriage partners. Maybe even the involvement of a marriage counsellor?

If, after all that work both parties agree that their relationship should be altered in this way, then yeah, it is possible for someone to think "Whoops, I've made a big mistake" afterwards.

But I mean, don't people know themselves well enough to know how they'd feel about their wife sleeping with another man? Most people would be passionately against it. Some might be "50/50". In which case a change of heart should lead to another conversation with the wife - and potentially the start of a separation and/or divorce. I mean, if the 2 people can't agree on such basic aspects of the relationship, it's time to go your separate ways..

Well I think its pretty clear the yes in this situation was a desperation move to save the sinking marriage. Hope was probably "oh if I say yes this will just be a phase and then we will get back to normal".

Trying to save a marriage by inviting a man into your wife's bed? Even when you are against such a thing happening?

The marriage is over.
 
Let's recall that this fictional person we talk about did say no - probably knowing that he wasn't fine with that - and then - according to this fictional person's fictional account - agreed later, but not to save his marriage but as a courtesy to his wife (though in all truthfulness it may have been both). And only after he had agreed the marriage seems to have become acutely endangered.
 
Yes, I would expect you to believe that openness and marriage are mutually exclusive.

Marriage has a specific meaning and that is of exclusivity between one man and one woman. By having a sexual relationship with someone outside of the marriage is a violation of an agreement made when you got married. Pretty simple.
 
Let's recall that this fictional person we talk about did say no - probably knowing that he wasn't fine with that - and then - according to this fictional person's fictional account - agreed later, but not to save his marriage but as a courtesy to his wife (though in all truthfulness it may have been both). And only after he had agreed the marriage seems to have become acutely endangered.

In that case the marriage was over when she decided that she wanted to sleep with other men.
 
You shouldn't have agreed to it. Now that you have - you've got to deal with the situation as it exists.

This was part of the grounds for my suggested solution, on which I would like to elaborate a bit.

In this hypothetical <ahem> case, the husband agreed to the open marriage. So he can't simply go backto the status quo ante of marital monogamy. When he tries to do that, the wife makes him the bad guy for going back on his agreement. His solution has to involve going forward from under the new "contract" he made when he agreed to the open marriage. I'm trying to get him his marriage back, because that's what he wants, from under the paradigm of the open marriage.

The way to do that it seems to me, is to use the very concept of the open marriage to put at risk for the wife something that she actually probably values more highly than hot sex with Mr. Muscle, namely, the marriage. She's not consciously aware that she values that more highly, because right now she doesn't have to be She just takes the marriage as a given (because the husband has made it one).

Here I'm going to draw on my go-to source for relationship advice, Amy Alkon, the Advice Goddess. She writes a newspaper column where she tackles issues like this all the time, and she always does so by invoking evolutionary biology. You know the principles. Men evolved to want mates with a high likelihood of producing offspring; women evolved to value men who will stay around and nurture the offspring; to do that, men want to know it's theirs, so men strongly value fidelity in their mates. These drives drive us more powerfully than more rational considerations.

This woman wants husband to keep paying the bills for wife and daughter. That, according to Alkon, is her most profound, irrationally-strong desire, and if she sees that at risk, she'll abandon any other interest. She doesn't see it as being at risk, so right now she feels she can have Mr. Muscle as well as Mr. Provider. (In fact, as one sign of men's dependibility as a provider, women like grandiose gifts, gifts that a man wouldn't give unless he meant to stay around. The wife is presently taking permission-to-have-sex-with-Mr-Muscle as such a gift. On one level it's satisfying her even more with her husband. (Note I didn't say making her love him more).)

But the concept of the open marriage gives the opportunity to put what the woman most deeply craves at risk. He just says, "I'm glad you've opened our marriage. I'm going to use the freedom as the opportunity to look around for someone who will satisfy me. What I'm satisfied with is marital fidelity. So if I find someone who will give me that, I'll be deeply satisfied. I hope it can be you. But if it can't be, I feel certain you'll understand if I divorce you to marry someone who can give me what I want. After all, it was you who suggested that we each be allowed to seek after what satisfies us."

Then, in her view, chat up a lot of women, as though you're interviewing them, but show special favor to one, look like you might be taking your dependibility off to one in particular.
 
You shouldn't have agreed to it. Now that you have - you've got to deal with the situation as it exists.

Open marriages can work, but they aren't for everyone. If it isn't for you - don't agree to it in the first place.

I know "hindsight is 20/20" and this thread isn't specifically about you, but if I was married and my wife asked me if I want to alter the terms of our relationship so that she could have sex with other men - I would tell her "Hell no". Some people would be fine with it - but why say "Yes" if you're not one of them?

I wouldn't put too much blame on the dude for agreeing to it in this situation though. If the wife is pushing for this to happen, she's going to cheat sooner or later whether or not he agrees to it. The fact that she wanted this in the first place means that she was not 100% satisfied with the relationship and the husband in the scenario telling her not to sleep with other dudes is not going to help that. If the husband in this scenario wants to take an active role in shaping the future, ultimately the only two options are divorce or marriage counseling, and the latter depends upon the wife's willingness to work it out. Of course the husband could also choose to be passive and just hope she "grows out of it", but good luck with that one.
 
I wouldn't put too much blame on the dude for agreeing to it in this situation though. If the wife is pushing for this to happen, she's going to cheat sooner or later whether or not he agrees to it. The fact that she wanted this in the first place means that she was not 100% satisfied with the relationship and the husband in the scenario telling her not to sleep with other dudes is not going to help that. If the husband in this scenario wants to take an active role in shaping the future, ultimately the only two options are divorce or marriage counseling, and the latter depends upon the wife's willingness to work it out. Of course the husband could also choose to be passive and just hope she "grows out of it", but good luck with that one.

Either way, if an open relationship does not work for him, he shouldn't have agreed to such terms. It is not going to lead to an improvement in the relationship - it is going to lead to further problems later. Essentially you're just saying "I don't want to deal with this now" and pushing back the problems to a later date.

A relationship only works if both people want the same things out of it. If one person has such dramatically different ideas as to what she'd like the relationship to be - then it just isn't going to work out. The answer is not to agree in order to placate the wife - the answer is to start working out a separation and/or divorce. It is going to come sooner or later anyway.
 
Trying to save a marriage by inviting a man into your wife's bed? Even when you are against such a thing happening?

The marriage is over.

We arent in disagreement here. Like I said the only way an open marriage could reasonably be expected to work is when that was always the plan and both people were into it.
 
We arent in disagreement here. Like I said the only way an open marriage could reasonably be expected to work is when that was always the plan and both people were into it.

It is possible for both people to be into it without it having always been the plan. People do grow and change. I've known couples who viewed a little sex on the side the same way they viewed going out to dinner...it just adds some variety, it doesn't mean you want to bring home a chef. In most cases that wasn't 'the plan from the start', it was just something they arrived at together.
 
Marriage has a specific meaning and that is of exclusivity between one man and one woman. By having a sexual relationship with someone outside of the marriage is a violation of an agreement made when you got married. Pretty simple.
How did God's chosen people come about again?
 
I agree that open marriages might work when they both start out that way, but not when one spouse reluctantly agrees to it a few years in.

I think the hypothetical OP should go to a marriage counselor, immediately. And also investigate the nation's/state's divorce laws.

We can blame the wife for asking to have sex outside the marriage, or the husband for ultimately agreeing to it, but to me the wife's objection to the permission being removed shows she is more concerned about the sex than her husband's feelings, and that's a clear sign that emotionally the marriage has already failed and is just waiting for both spouses to figure that out. It's really too bad that there's a baby involved.
 
Depends on how open-minded you are. Maybe propose a new condition that whenever she wants sex with the other guy, you'd have to be involved too? Maybe that would help with jealousy. I'm half serious.
 
It is possible for both people to be into it without it having always been the plan. People do grow and change. I've known couples who viewed a little sex on the side the same way they viewed going out to dinner...it just adds some variety, it doesn't mean you want to bring home a chef. In most cases that wasn't 'the plan from the start', it was just something they arrived at together.

True, but to me going from exclusivity to not already implies some sort of psychological separation is occurring, even if both want it which to me implies the relationship has some cracks forming, but it is certainly possible.
 
(In fact, as one sign of men's dependibility as a provider, women like grandiose gifts, gifts that a man wouldn't give unless he meant to stay around. The wife is presently taking permission-to-have-sex-with-Mr-Muscle as such a gift. On one level it's satisfying her even more with her husband. (Note I didn't say making her love him more).)

Damn that's quite a hypothesis. I like it.

Appeals to evolutionary biology are always dubious, and say more about us than about our ancestors, but the appeals to them seem to adhere well to how we interact in society now and are at worst self fulfilling myths, at best true.

Regardless, they are always fun and often compelling.
 
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