Opinions on Civ 6

[Teiwaz93]

Hi everyone,
since i didnt find anything using the search function i hope you dont mind me asking.
what are your opinions on civ 6 and maybe even what are the chances of developing a mod for that game ? i understand you cannot take all the progress you made on 4 and put it into 6 so your priority will stay on this project so im just interested to know if you are willing to give the new boy a chance or if you already have given up on it
cheers

 

[JosEPh_II]

I have not bought 6.

Big question for me which will determine my answer to your question. Does 6 use the same core principles as 5? I know it uses 1UPT concept (slightly amended with support unit).

JosEPh

 

[Toffer90]

No opinion yet; I'm just assuming it will be another disappointment.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I've heard very good things about civ 6. But since they continue to utilize 1UPT, I'll contentedly stay working on C2C, where I feel we are making good progress finally. Still so much to do here to get the vision to become a reality. I do wish we could use their graphic engine. Very nice.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Civ VI is the first Civ I have not even considered buying.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Seems like only yesterday we were talking about what to do about Civ5. If Caveman 2 Cosmos ever gets ported to another game I hope it is as its own game and not a mod at all.

 

[Noriad2]

The software industry is the only industry where it is standard practice to sell a half-finished product, degrade the customers to paying beta-testers, then ask money again for the same, slightly more fixed product with an added feature or two. In the games industry this used to be called the "expansions model" but over the last few years has come to be called the "DLC model" (DLC=downloadable content). Nowadays I hardly ever consider buying a game before at least a few "DLCs" or "expansions" are out (preferably all of them) and I can buy the complete bundle at a discount price.

I did watch some youtube vids on Civ6 and the consensus so far seems to be that the AI is extremely weak. Chris67132 who has some Civ 4 BTS deity vids on youtube said that Civ6 deity is like Civ4 prince difficulty. The best strategy is ICS: infinite city sprawl, which is building lots of small cities (i.e. going wide) instead of building a few large cities (i.e. going tall). Cities have no build queue, so the game becomes tedious fast on anything bigger than a small map.

 

[Teiwaz93]

I have not bought 6.

Big question for me which will determine my answer to your question. Does 6 use the same core principles as 5? I know it uses 1UPT concept (slightly amended with support unit).

JosEPh

in many ways i like to thing about civ 6 as the good 5 ... civ 5 was really bad but i still put 400 hours or something like that into it because it had some good aspects which 6 has more of ... i actually think 6 is a good game while 4 was great
i dont know what you mean by core principles as 5 exactly but many things work alike

to the AI: yep its stupid ... i did my first game as germany on default difficulty and by the year 1400 i had researched flight and was miles ahead in the techtree and then got bored and rushed the game to victory which i usually dont do
with the "fall patch" they released the AI should have become a bit better but i havent tested it myself in a big war or a war heavy game since i dont really trust the improvements to be that impactfull and winning a war makes the game sooo much easier because they dont have any sort of balance for tall vs wide
having many cities is always the way to go because there are no penalties ... no increase in tech/civic cost no maintenance (except for buildings) and thank god no stupid nonlogical global happiness
they also still use 1UPT but i dont mind that too much ... stack of dooms and carpets of doom both have their disadvantages and the advantage of 1upt is that you can choose which enemy unit you want to attack ... in a stack its always the unit with the best chances defending so it feels to me like you always have to sacrifice some of your units to get the best defenders injured first with them having no real chance of winning the battle

in the end i think civ 6 is good game with great potential ... definitly better than 5 but maybe not as good as 4

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

Civ VI is BAD. I think the AI is actually worse than the AI of Civ V on release. The mechanics is an improvement on Civ V however it is still a bad game. Do NOT buy it if you can avoid it

Also it has the same problem Civ III did where you can just build tonnes and tonnes of cities, ICS, and there are no penalties

There is also no Golden Ages, No Happiness - sort of. All the Great people are limited

I played 2 playthroughs and regret spending the £50 it cost me

I was going to do a better "in-depth" review of it but I cant. I just cannot stand the game after 2 playthroughs I am done with Failaxis from now on. Except for their older games - Civ II,IV Alpha Centauri and the older ones

 

[JosEPh_II]

I bought BE when it came out............I was hoping it was a prettier albeit slightly dumbed down remake of Alpha Centari. I was disappointed. I have not even bought the addons for it.

I never bought V and BE just clearly showed me that that was a good decision for my wallet.

I also this year bought the Collector's Edition of Master of Orion Conquer the Stars. Went thru 7 EA phases of it getting ready for regular release. I stopped playing it 1 game into the 7th EA and put it down. Now that it has finally released it's 1st DLC I updated the game to the latest release. Played a couple hours the other night during thursday night football, It finally is starting to shape up. But it's also selling on Gog for $14.99 a far cry from the $50 I paid for the Early release Collector's edition and thefrustration of the WG MoOCtS forum.

All that said I will probably not buy Civ VI either.

JosEPh

 

[Cosmic Fox]

Seems like only yesterday we were talking about what to do about Civ5. If Caveman 2 Cosmos ever gets ported to another game I hope it is as its own game and not a mod at all.

I second that comment, I want to attempt it myself because Civ 6 I believe can be an awesome base for a Caveman 2 Cosmos Total Conversion Mod, I believe it could be made better and much more expansive then its previous rendition. I am helping with The Balancer mod with my good old Friend Elucidus.

Joesph, I also felt the same exact way when BE was announced. I felt well perhaps the next expansion will resolve the issues. Sadly no it was designed by guys who had no clue what makes a great civ game sadly. Civ 5 was a joke written by the same guys who wrote BE.

As far as civ 6 you might want to rethink that decision, civ 6 is wide open for modding. We have full access to the game DB, this alone is fantastic. I am loving the game even with its many bugs and shortcomings. Mainly due to the modding abilities, it seems to be made exactly what they claimed. Modding was in mind from the ground up, I suspect the SDK will give us access to everything we don't have access now. Want to bet on it?

 

[MacCoise]

I bought CIV VI, played a few hours and thoroughly enjoyed it but haven't played since....not sure what that means

 

[Praetyre]

Honestly (and I'm sure I'm not the only one to think this) leaving aside the (very legitimate) question of whether Civ VI (or V, or BE, or whatever) is as or more suitable for C2C than BTS, I think it might actually take less effort to create a new game from scratch and design it to meet C2C's needs than to learn the ropes of a whole new mod.

Granted, I'm not an experienced modder, but it seems to me that if you're willing to invest that much labour into transferring C2C over to a whole new engine, you might as well build your own anyway.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Honestly (and I'm sure I'm not the only one to think this) leaving aside the (very legitimate) question of whether Civ VI (or V, or BE, or whatever) is as or more suitable for C2C than BTS, I think it might actually take less effort to create a new game from scratch and design it to meet C2C's needs than to learn the ropes of a whole new mod.

Granted, I'm not an experienced modder, but it seems to me that if you're willing to invest that much labour into transferring C2C over to a whole new engine, you might as well build your own anyway.

It would certainly be a LOT more rewarding at least! And I highly doubt that the CivVI code would give any more or further access than the CiV IV code does or they are handing over the keys to any modders to take the game and rewrite from a working platform into a new game they could turn around and market and win in court over simply because they made enough changes. Without locking the core (such as the EXE here) you might as well be open source to begin with.

 

[Teiwaz93]

It would certainly be a LOT more rewarding at least! And I highly doubt that the CivVI code would give any more or further access than the CiV IV code does or they are handing over the keys to any modders to take the game and rewrite from a working platform into a new game they could turn around and market and win in court over simply because they made enough changes. Without locking the core (such as the EXE here) you might as well be open source to begin with.

well if you actually started a whole new game i think i might actually be interested in joining or at least lend a hand as far as i could
i may have no modding experience at all because its just quite a big thing to learn if you didnt do anything before and i dont even actually know where to start and what to do (without going over my capabilities) BUT i am studying IT at university and getting familiar with C/C++ as in one of the courses i take we actually programm a game - be it a 2D plattformer type of thing but a game none the less
just FIY ^^

 

[Thunderbrd]

well if you actually started a whole new game i think i might actually be interested in joining or at least lend a hand as far as i could
i may have no modding experience at all because its just quite a big thing to learn if you didnt do anything before and i dont even actually know where to start and what to do (without going over my capabilities) BUT i am studying IT at university and getting familiar with C/C++ as in one of the courses i take we actually programm a game - be it a 2D plattformer type of thing but a game none the less
just FIY ^^

Given the start, I could do a lot of filling in. What I'm unfamiliar with is front end stuff and a lot of the setup that gets us to where we are working at in the DLL. This is my only programming experience and even at the edges of the architecture here I have a lot of places I'm not all that proficient with.

I found an interesting graphics engine platform from Garage Games that's free to download and use but I haven't taken any time to dive in and learn how to work with it yet.

I can definitely say that the project would be daunting and there's a lot of core design decisions I'd do differently than Civ so whatever team would come together would have to hammer out a lot of details... a lot. Just the planning of such a game would be an incredible effort, let alone building up the codebase. Maybe someday I'll feel ready to take that sort of step but I'd need to educate the hell out of myself because I'd not feel comfortable with leaving myself in the dark on understanding any aspects of the system.

Koshling may still be working on something of an alternative game design from the ground up still and that sounded like it could be promising. Haven't heard any updates on that in a while.

We do have a forum for such a project but I stopped using it nearly as quickly as I started because working on the game at this level is too much a draw at this time and at the time, which was about 3-4 years ago now, we didn't have any core programmer that could or would really give us the seed coding architecture.

 

[JosEPh_II]

With out a dedicated C++ Modder, even a self taught one like ThunderBrd here, C2C would be basically dead in the water. Those left could do some peripheral work on xml and balancing, but any in depth Bug squashing would be over with. The immensity of this mod has "burned out" every C++ modder we've had and has come close to doing so to T-brd already. His tenacity is to be applauded greatly.

We actually Need a Help Wanted sign out saying, "C++ programmers Needed" to lighten his load. We've had several college students learning C++ come and want to help. But once they see the amount of coding in this mod they wilt fast and disappear, never to be seen again.

JosEPh

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

I can pretend to know C++. But you make it sound like there's 3 million lines, a lot of crosstalk, no documentation, and pointer arithmetic out the wazoo.

Am I close?
(Allegedly I've been taught Python, too.)

A dedicated machine for C2C makes me salivate, not gonna lie. Even just things like a more comfortable city screen, and rejiggering the resource network (and cultures!) .... so good. So, so good.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I can pretend to know C++. But you make it sound like there's 3 million lines, a lot of crosstalk, no documentation, and pointer arithmetic out the wazoo.

Am I close?

lol. It's a deep game man. Very deep. There is very little documentation because the documentation got too messy to follow so we work on getting rid of it more than making more. 3 million lines? no idea how many it really is but it's certainly a lot. It's mostly the disconnect where we cannot see how things process in the exe that causes the most hair pulling out.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I can pretend to know C++. But you make it sound like there's 3 million lines, a lot of crosstalk, no documentation, and pointer arithmetic out the wazoo.

Am I close?
(Allegedly I've been taught Python, too.)

A dedicated machine for C2C makes me salivate, not gonna lie. Even just things like a more comfortable city screen, and rejiggering the resource network (and cultures!) .... so good. So, so good.

Very, and that is just the simple Python modules lol. The main interface Python module is 7,000 lines of undocumented code. I am very slowly splitting it into modules that match the objects (screen or logic) but it takes time and I am easily distracted