OTR - JPetroski (Allies) vs. Prof Garfield (Axis)

[Prof. Garfield]

I'm not sure why I added that to them. But with them having that, I am in total agreement with you: there is absolutely no point to using 110s. Thus it seems likely that their munitions are on the chopping block.

The civlopedia suggests they were not meant to fly at high altitude during the day, which would also significantly weaken them for daytime interception missions.

In any event, I think the core issue with Bomber Command is that there is no good way for the pilots to become veterans, like the 8th has. If they are vets, they seem to do much better, unless they come against a vet, in which case it drops again, but seemingly not too bad (though again, small sample size).

While I think that getting veterans is an issue, it doesn't solve the lack of survivability for planes on their first mission.

Thinking out loud:

Could an RAF bomber that presses k next to an enemy urban target in Germany (not occupied) be changed to vet status (but not the first munition it drops with k)?

I was initially going to ask if we could have it so any bomber that has NONE and rearms gets changed to vet but that is easily exploitable by dropping bombs in empty English fields. If it's possible to only bestow this for pressing k next to a target in Germany (read: deep raid) then I think things might balance better. Perhaps even the 17 and 24 could have this mechanism (you'd have to get there, but if you did, you might have an easier time getting out).

That's possible, and I would agree that if making an attack grants veteran status at night, it should also do so during the day. I'm not convinced that is the correct solution, but I don't really know why, beyond the fact that the bombers can get chewed up before they get to drop their bombs.

Getting rid of veteran munitions would solve the survivability problem. It is a bit of an issue for the Germans as well, making it difficult, for example, to escort Stukas. However, that does weaken the value of veterans significantly, so I'm not sure.

 

[JPetroski]

Could we use some form of leader bonus to add, say, +1 or 2 to the attack of munitions vs. 50% increase? We could be more precise?

I'm outside and don't even know what the attack is in the first place (or if +1 is actually 50% greater).

 

[Prof. Garfield]

The light guns attack value is 4, so +1 would be a 25% increase, which is probably more reasonable.

I think I could make the change without too much trouble, since I already change the value for tactics, and we already keep track of the last munition user for stuff like bestowing veteran status upon successful kills.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I'm glad I didn't start this last night, since I have an easier way to make things work. Instead of giving a bonus if the munition was generated by a veteran, I'll reduce the base attack of the munition if it is veteran.

So, Light guns base value is 4, debuff it to 3, times 50% means 4.5, or 12.5% attack buff.
Med guns/Rockets, 5, debuff to 4, vet means 6, 20% attack bonus for vet
Jet guns, 6, debuff to 5, vet means 7.5, 25% attack bonus for vet
Heavy Guns, 7, debuff to 6, vet means 9, 28.5% attack bonus for vet
Med guns+3 tactics, 8, debuff to 7, vet means 10.5, 31.2% attack bonus for vet
Jet Guns+3 tactics, 9, debuff to 8, vet means 12, 33.3% attack bonus for vet
Heavy Guns+3 tactics, 10, debuff to 9, vet means 13.5, 35% attack bonus for vet

Let me know if you think this is reasonable.

 

[JPetroski]

I think it is, yes. Whatever is easier for you!

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Downed 5 or 6 planes.

Remember to get the new events from the other thread.

 

[JPetroski]

3x 109, 3x190, 2x 110 destroyed and we also finish off the port at Nantes.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Downed 6 B17s, and 7 Stirlings. I'm a bit surprised that the B17s continued on their path across the North Sea after being spotted.

 

[JPetroski]

There were high winds and my network has been down all morning--not sure when ill be able to play.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Take your time. I won't be able to play again until evening at the earliest.

 

[JPetroski]

The Hague's port and the city of Wilhelmshaven both attacked without result (well, a B-17 falls to flak). We shoot down a few fighters.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

A bunch of Stirlings, and a few daylight bombers are downed. The Germans have been neglecting their intelligence reports, and were surprised with the appearance of planes flying from Italy, but a few units have been diverted to that location.

I wonder if the solution to the night bombing 'problem' is just to increase the movement allowance of night bombers, so they spend fewer turns aloft and therefore have less chance to be intercepted. I do have a lot of night assets in the area, so it is not surprising I got most or all of the bombers. (Or, maybe I didn't and will find that out to my detriment in the future.)

 

[JPetroski]

That, or make intruders have enough range so they can operate deep in Germany from the get go, which they historically could (the RAF basically used bombers in the role).

Right now there's really no way for me to whittle your fighter strength down to where my losses would be acceptable.

Not sure when I'll be able to play today.

 

[JPetroski]

Here is the turn - the 15th strikes a target near Munich. Carrier-based Spitfires managed to down a Fw200. A Ju88C is shot down by night intruders.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

15th airforce downed, a couple Beaufighters engaged. Some convoys engaged, but I don't remember if any were sunk.

A tech (I think Wilde Sau) is nuclear power, and has given my submarines 11 movement points. More importantly, the events were coded so that move spent from munitions is set to exactly the unit's total movement, thereby giving my subs unlimited torpedoes, since nuclear power wasn't taken into consideration. I've fixed the events, and they are attached. I don't think this change should cause any problems, but you never know.

 

[JPetroski]

Suggestion on the resistance piece: It will say that certain cities have been revealed, however sometimes it picks one for a city I haven't "found" in the game. For example, this turn, Woensdrecht was "revealed" though I have never "found" it in the game. As it turns out, if you click on its tile (which I know as it's a starting airfield), you can view it as normal. However, II/JG76 (a city you founded) is unknown to me, so I found myself clicking on random airfield tiles trying to find it.

Any chance of creating an Allied "camera" unit next to the city that is revealed along with the message? It is superfluous as the city is revealed and you don't need to use it, but it would, I think, solve this problem.

As to the turn:

We lose a convoy to a wolf pack
Allied Spitfires shoot down a FW190 far out in the Atlantic.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Destroyed an A20 near Crown Point, destroyed an urban target by Plymouth.

Ran into a few issues that I can't fix now, but want to remember:

Regensburg 2nd refinery doesn't appear on ground level.
Fighter-bomber FW190 can attack with bombs on the night map; this should be prevented unless we want 1000lb bombs falling on Allied urban targets.
Pressed 'u' with a construction worker over a switchyard, and got an error.
With nuclear power, a defeated submarine had 1 mp this turn to move out of port.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Regensburg has Urban III and Refinery II using the same square. You'll have to decide what gets moved, and to where. I would recommend the urban III square, as it is the 'spare' square.

Changes:
'u' keypress outside city bug fixed
FW190F, DO335,JU87G can't use secondary Munition at night. More planes might need this, the key is nightAltNoAttack=true

The u-boat problem was also fixed.

Airfields that the resistance spies on are revealed to the Allies (by placing and removing a radar marker).

 

[JPetroski]

Sorry - didn't realize that you had played earlier.

I sunk 2 or 3 U-Boats and shot down some night bombers as well as a Ju88C. The Ju88C took so many fighters to bring it down that we gave the crew a state funeral.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I think a 110 killed a Beaufighter. I attacked a convoy with a torpedo, also.

Regensburg has Urban III and Refinery II using the same square. You'll have to decide what gets moved, and to where. I would recommend the urban III square, as it is the 'spare' square.

I can make the fix myself, but I'll need a decision on this. Regensburg has 3 aircraft factories, so the refinery is kind of valuable.