OTR - JPetroski (Allies) vs. Prof Garfield (Axis)

I can make the fix myself, but I'll need a decision on this. Regensburg has 3 aircraft factories, so the refinery is kind of valuable.

I changed improvement 10 to 346,106 which should be within the city's zone of control and which didn't have anything else - if you prefer something else please make an executive decision, but this should get things operational for you. I've attached the events.

Bordeaux port destroyed with La Rochelle damaged sligthly. A few U-Boats are destroyed at Bordeaux in port per the events. A 110 is shot down and a few U-Boats sunk in the Atlantic.
 

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I used an event to change the ground level tile near Regensburg to refinery. I didn't move the target, or change high altitude stuff, but I don't think it will matter.

A couple convoys sunk, a stacked convoy attacked. Stirlings destroyed over North Sea. Some confusion about numbers, since multiple radar stations picked them up.

Defenders of Western France have gotten complacent and failed to request new fighters to replace losses. Few units engage the B17s, though at least one was downed.
 

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A number of fighters are shot down over western France, including an Experten. He acquits himself well before dying. I think I killed a U-Boat as well.
 

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Battles over the North Sea and Western France. 12 B17s damaged, 9 of the damaged B17s destroyed. 9 P38s destroyed also. 2 Convoys sunk.

We will now see if the North Sea B17s were bait for a trap...
 

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The Hague port is destroyed.

4x Me109G6
3x Fw190A5
2x Fw190A8
4x Me110
1x Fw190F8
3x He111 lost

1x P-38 is killed by reactive fire.
 

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  • JPAllies51.zip
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Allied casualties:

2x Beaufighter
2x P47
2x P38
1x Stirling
3x B17 (destroyed)
2x convoy

I'm wondering if instant Wilde Sau for bomber destroyers might be a little too good. I've probably used it for 4 or 5 planes, but it feels like it could be really powerful, at least now that we've removed the rockets from the JU88s.
 

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Various dogfights all over the place.
 

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  • JPAllies52.zip
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Downed 6 planes.

I'm wondering if maybe Germany is the better civ for the more inexperienced player. I think it is more complicated to play, but it does start off with the advantage, giving some breathing room while learning. If nothing else, winning for the first half of the game feels better than getting all your stuff chewed up, even if the "tipping point" does end up coming sooner than for an experienced player (and Germany is "supposed" to lose anyway). Meanwhile, the Allies have to carefully use their advantages, otherwise a "tipping point" will be significantly delayed or maybe never come, and that is harder to do when you're also learning tactics.
 

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Fighting over Calais area continues.

I'm wondering if maybe Germany is the better civ for the more inexperienced player. I think it is more complicated to play, but it does start off with the advantage, giving some breathing room while learning. If nothing else, winning for the first half of the game feels better than getting all your stuff chewed up, even if the "tipping point" does end up coming sooner than for an experienced player (and Germany is "supposed" to lose anyway). Meanwhile, the Allies have to carefully use their advantages, otherwise a "tipping point" will be significantly delayed or maybe never come, and that is harder to do when you're also learning tactics.

Yes you might be onto something there. If the Allied player doesn't have a pretty good strategic plan and method of going about it, things are for a loss.

I'm always in favor of situations that can go either way depending on decisions made. For example, I think we have the Battle of the Atlantic fairly well-balanced. I'm getting through many more convoys now that I've refined my process, but you're also sinking convoys here and there so I need to be vigilant. You won it early which really set me back, but now I think the tide is turning and I'd say I have a marginal victory going on there (of course who knows what scheme you have up your sleeves). I'm pretty satisfied with that. I'm not sure we're there yet in every other place...

Some things I've noticed from playing both sides, side by side, and getting the perspective of the less-experienced Allied player:

--BOMBER COMMAND--

Perceived Issue:
Bomber Command is slow and plodding, period. Further, the night Allied lineup is not as extensive as day, whereas the Germans get to throw everything at them.

Proposed Solution: Maybe one of the spare unit slots should allow a Mosquito bomber version that can attack similar to the A-20 - A-26 line, meaning it is fast, hard to intercept, and can get out of dodge when it drops bombs. To compensate, it can't carry as many bombs. This might be more useful than "aces" for the Allies. Or, we could simply double up with the night fighters for the Allies and allow them to carry bombs as payload (this would be much easier and saves the slot).

--INTRUDERS--

Perceived Issue: I've pretty much abandoned all hope of being able to make any successful attacks with Bomber Command. This is because it is very difficult if not impossible for the Allies to grind down the Luftwaffe by night. The interceptors don't have enough range or speed to go out and hunt, which means that I shoot down your aircraft piece meal. By day, I've had some success in areas where I saturate fighters. At the very least, I know that I can knock down several of your fighters in small little areas, and eventually wrest some control for a very localized area (not sure trying to do two at once paid off). This is impossible by night.

Proposed solution: Decrease cost of interceptors (since they are very expensive currently, but can only be used at night) and increase their MP per turn so they have a good overall range. I'd probably leave their turns aloft fairly short so they can't just loiter numerous turns. I was thinking of starting them at 40 MP.

--ESCORTS--

Perceived Issue: I have noticed that Fairline's escort fighters are worthless. They don't react better than the bombers they're protecting. This changes eventually (I think the Mustangs react 4 spaces) but for now, P-47s have to literally be stacked on another aircraft to present any real protection, and are easily avoided. I'm quite unhappy with how this is working out and see no need at all to build the escort fighters, and don't find them particularly dangerous -- at all -- in my game as the Axis.

Proposed Solution: I would propose that the Spits react at range 2, the P-47's at 3,4,5 respectively, the P-51s at 6 and 7. This would allow them to cover more bombers, and also would allow them to attack "out of the sun" meaning that they might intercept Germans who didn't realize they are around. They would be much less avoidable and the escort would need to be deliberately dealt with to engage the bombers. The historic tactic of waiting for the escorts to get out of range has never been used so far, by anyone, because there's no need for it. This would give the escorts some bite, and would mix up tactics). Now, on the other hand, I'd probably reduce the P-38's reaction range to 1, meaning they're mostly meant for direct attack.

--RADAR--

Perceived Issue:
We've both been placing radar in cities protected by flak. There's no reason to place it anywhere else. This makes it all but impervious to attack, when it should be something that is very useful to attack.

Proposed Solution: I'm really not sure what to do about this. I suppose we could check what type of tile it is on and teleport it off of it, but this gets rid of its handy "paradrop" deployment, making it far too slow without it.

--15th AIR FORCE--

Perceived Issue:
Escorts are incredibly late-game arrivals.

Proposed Solution: Here it might make sense to have an earlier (and correspondingly weaker) escort unit that operates the same was as the 15th (build it in England and it teleports south). As it stands it makes little sense for me to send anything there as it will be torn up with no recourse.

In sum, anywhere that I can never hope to get a fighter to (currently, night and Italy) is a lost cause in a game that requires me to attack the Luftwaffe fighters and knock them out. The only place I'm marginally successful are areas where I can saturate fighters. Now, I might choose the wrong place to saturate, or perhaps you commit more resources than I do and I don't commit enough, and then I lose, but at least I have an option/chance.
 

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  • JPAllies53.zip
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A few planes downed east of England, but the Luftwaffe doesn't hang around to face the P38s on the ground nearby.

I've improved pathfinding for units that can't cross impassible terrain (trains and flak trains, though there might be something else that can be added to the list). This is mostly to help the German player with his trains.

Basically, when a train is activated while it has a goto order, Lua will calculate the path to the destination, and change the train's goto order to be one square out of movement for the current turn. Unfortunately, giving the unit a goto order via the mouse (or any other non-event method) doesn't activate the improved pathfinding on the current turn. You can get around this if necessary by using the hotkeys to set the goto order. I set a hotkey to a square near Cologne, and give that order to my trains in France.

Let me know if you run into problems.

I'll reply to your post separately.
 

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  • PGGermans_a53-And-Events.zip
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I'm always in favor of situations that can go either way depending on decisions made. For example, I think we have the Battle of the Atlantic fairly well-balanced. I'm getting through many more convoys now that I've refined my process, but you're also sinking convoys here and there so I need to be vigilant. You won it early which really set me back, but now I think the tide is turning and I'd say I have a marginal victory going on there (of course who knows what scheme you have up your sleeves). I'm pretty satisfied with that. I'm not sure we're there yet in every other place...

I agree that Battle of the Atlantic is working pretty well. I think that is partly because the submarines have a good chance to re-spawn, so killing takes some effort. The Allies have to devote some effort to the campaign, but I feel it wouldn't be a waste of time for the Germans to contest even at this point (though there might be better places to put effort).

--BOMBER COMMAND--

Perceived Issue:
Bomber Command is slow and plodding, period. Further, the night Allied lineup is not as extensive as day, whereas the Germans get to throw everything at them.

Proposed Solution: Maybe one of the spare unit slots should allow a Mosquito bomber version that can attack similar to the A-20 - A-26 line, meaning it is fast, hard to intercept, and can get out of dodge when it drops bombs. To compensate, it can't carry as many bombs. This might be more useful than "aces" for the Allies. Or, we could simply double up with the night fighters for the Allies and allow them to carry bombs as payload (this would be much easier and saves the slot).

I would prefer to give a bomb to the night fighters, but the more advanced ones already have radar as their secondary attack, so they can't really double up (I have the night ace with rockets and radar, and it is a bit of a hassle). I think I suggested before that we give the night bombers a greater speed, so they are more protected. Perhaps the solution is extra speed, and not expending all the movement points when attacking. Think of these things as added safety at night, rather than the physical capabilities of the planes. With reactive flak, we don't need to ensure that the planes are within range of a counterattack.

--INTRUDERS--

Perceived Issue: I've pretty much abandoned all hope of being able to make any successful attacks with Bomber Command. This is because it is very difficult if not impossible for the Allies to grind down the Luftwaffe by night. The interceptors don't have enough range or speed to go out and hunt, which means that I shoot down your aircraft piece meal. By day, I've had some success in areas where I saturate fighters. At the very least, I know that I can knock down several of your fighters in small little areas, and eventually wrest some control for a very localized area (not sure trying to do two at once paid off). This is impossible by night.

Proposed solution: Decrease cost of interceptors (since they are very expensive currently, but can only be used at night) and increase their MP per turn so they have a good overall range. I'd probably leave their turns aloft fairly short so they can't just loiter numerous turns. I was thinking of starting them at 40 MP.

That's a good point that you can't easily grind down my night fighters. Increasing their range (either by turns aloft or by movement per turn) might fix some of that. However, increased movement per turn would mean that they are more effective at intercepting bombers, which is something to consider. I'm not sure it matters too much, since Germany isn't "supposed" to bomb England, though I did do it a few times for points and to disrupt convoys, so there might be some balance issues if Allied night fighters have their range extended.

--ESCORTS--

Perceived Issue: I have noticed that Fairline's escort fighters are worthless. They don't react better than the bombers they're protecting. This changes eventually (I think the Mustangs react 4 spaces) but for now, P-47s have to literally be stacked on another aircraft to present any real protection, and are easily avoided. I'm quite unhappy with how this is working out and see no need at all to build the escort fighters, and don't find them particularly dangerous -- at all -- in my game as the Axis.

Proposed Solution: I would propose that the Spits react at range 2, the P-47's at 3,4,5 respectively, the P-51s at 6 and 7. This would allow them to cover more bombers, and also would allow them to attack "out of the sun" meaning that they might intercept Germans who didn't realize they are around. They would be much less avoidable and the escort would need to be deliberately dealt with to engage the bombers. The historic tactic of waiting for the escorts to get out of range has never been used so far, by anyone, because there's no need for it. This would give the escorts some bite, and would mix up tactics). Now, on the other hand, I'd probably reduce the P-38's reaction range to 1, meaning they're mostly meant for direct attack.

These changes to the reaction range seem reasonable. Now, it might be a bit of a mistake for me to engage that close to England, at least now that you have a decent number of (cheap) fighters.

For what it is worth, I don't fear P47s unless they are in position to dive. I tend to attack them last, since they only have light machine guns anyway.

--RADAR--

Perceived Issue:
We've both been placing radar in cities protected by flak. There's no reason to place it anywhere else. This makes it all but impervious to attack, when it should be something that is very useful to attack.

Proposed Solution: I'm really not sure what to do about this. I suppose we could check what type of tile it is on and teleport it off of it, but this gets rid of its handy "paradrop" deployment, making it far too slow without it.

Perhaps we make it so that the radar only works if it is on an installation terrain (I think I should be able to do this without too much difficulty, but I'd have to check to know for sure). That would make radar rather more difficult to deploy, since you would need both a city to build it in, and an engineer nearby, but would also mean that it naturally doesn't hide in cities. This change would render my current radar network almost worthless, until I bought more engineers. On the other hand, it would mean that undeployed radar stations wouldn't get caught in the "scan all" command, which is a minor hassle at the moment. I think it is the nature of things that radar will be protected by flak if it is anywhere vulnerable.

Regarding the difficulty of deploying radar under this system, it does raise the concern that the player might favour scout patrols instead of radar installations, and that would be rather tedious.

--15th AIR FORCE--

Perceived Issue:
Escorts are incredibly late-game arrivals.

Proposed Solution: Here it might make sense to have an earlier (and correspondingly weaker) escort unit that operates the same was as the 15th (build it in England and it teleports south). As it stands it makes little sense for me to send anything there as it will be torn up with no recourse.

In sum, anywhere that I can never hope to get a fighter to (currently, night and Italy) is a lost cause in a game that requires me to attack the Luftwaffe fighters and knock them out. The only place I'm marginally successful are areas where I can saturate fighters. Now, I might choose the wrong place to saturate, or perhaps you commit more resources than I do and I don't commit enough, and then I lose, but at least I have an option/chance.

I tended to view the 15th airforce as something that I had to maintain in order to force the Germans to keep some fighters in the south, rather than something to use. One option is to give the 15th airforce the same movement allowance as the B24s, so even if they are vulnerable to annihilation, they at least get to reach their target.

I think you're right that the way the game works, it only makes sense to attack in situations where you can down enemy fighters. A strategic target takes 1 fighter's worth of shields to build (two, if it is urgent to get it up and running, and trains must be brought in), and some lost production. Since it takes 6 or 8 bombers to have a reasonable chance to destroy the target, the attrition doesn't work unless your fighters can down the enemy fighters. Reactions are unlikely to kill the enemy from full health in most circumstances, and the bombers can't select the weakened ones to kill outright. So, any damage done is only temporary.

I'm lead to the conclusion that bombers must either do a lot more damage, or be much more survivable.

If we go for survivability, one option is the "submarine" option, where "killed" bombers show up alive later (which kind of ruins the B17's advantage), or, maybe, a killed bomber puts shields into an airfield (I would suggest the home airfield, except that we have payload...).

Another survivability option is to change combat so that severely damaging a bomber (or, perhaps any air) is not too difficult, but actually scoring the kill has a lower probability than ordinary combat would dictate. For example, once the aircraft is below 3 hp, any munition just has a 20% chance of killing, regardless of other factors. This would increase the value of the light gun aircraft, and dampen the rockets.

Since the B17s must be killed twice, they would be quite rugged. Escape into the night would also be significantly improved this way. This might also mean that dogfights actually peter out, as highly damaged fighters don't want to risk reactive attacks and instead fly home, or the effort to kill actually means that turns aloft have some impact on the result.

If we go for extra damage, then we make bombs more powerful, or, perhaps better, reduce the defensive stats of the strategic targets. Or, we make each bomb do a minimum damage using the resolve combat event.

Another option for extra damage is to stop aircraft from healing (by setting the 'has moved' bit for all aircraft between turns). This way, damage done to fighters is permanent, or at least forces planes to be disbanded for a 50% "kill." Without healing, leaving a damaged plane doesn't mean that it is a free full health (and probably veteran) plane in a few turns, but a permanently weakened entity, so trying for the final kill is less appealing. Perhaps the allied advantage would be that they do get replacements for damaged aircraft, so they can heal, while the Germans can't.
 
As for the turn we continue to harass U-Boats with our A-20s and shoot down a 109.

I agree that Battle of the Atlantic is working pretty well. I think that is partly because the submarines have a good chance to re-spawn, so killing takes some effort. The Allies have to devote some effort to the campaign, but I feel it wouldn't be a waste of time for the Germans to contest even at this point (though there might be better places to put effort).

About the only change I'd make at this point would be to reduce the cost for the Fw200 and Sunderland so there is a point to building them. Further, I'll discuss a proposed tweak to German bombers a bit down.

I would prefer to give a bomb to the night fighters, but the more advanced ones already have radar as their secondary attack, so they can't really double up (I have the night ace with rockets and radar, and it is a bit of a hassle). I think I suggested before that we give the night bombers a greater speed, so they are more protected. Perhaps the solution is extra speed, and not expending all the movement points when attacking. Think of these things as added safety at night, rather than the physical capabilities of the planes. With reactive flak, we don't need to ensure that the planes are within range of a counterattack.

I don't really think the onboard radar for Allied night fighters is particularly useful because the location of your assets isn't really secret - it's wherever bombers are burning. Radar jamming would be useful, but perhaps difficult to implement. I'd rather the Allies have a speedy bomber option than onboard radar that they can't use.

That's a good point that you can't easily grind down my night fighters. Increasing their range (either by turns aloft or by movement per turn) might fix some of that. However, increased movement per turn would mean that they are more effective at intercepting bombers, which is something to consider. I'm not sure it matters too much, since Germany isn't "supposed" to bomb England, though I did do it a few times for points and to disrupt convoys, so there might be some balance issues if Allied night fighters have their range extended.

I do think German bombers would become much less useful but to get at what I was hinting to earlier, maybe all German bombers should be able to attack at low alt? Then they could be used in the Battle of the Atlantic if the player wanted (I would probably start the Allies with an extra carrier if we go this route).

For what it is worth, I don't fear P47s unless they are in position to dive. I tend to attack them last, since they only have light machine guns anyway.

Exactly and that's a problem. If the escort fighters can be lurking a few tiles off and still react, they're more of a problem. Right now, the P-47s can't even react further than a B-17. They might not be great at directly attacking fighters, but they should be more useful for whittling them down.

Perhaps we make it so that the radar only works if it is on an installation terrain (I think I should be able to do this without too much difficulty, but I'd have to check to know for sure). That would make radar rather more difficult to deploy, since you would need both a city to build it in, and an engineer nearby, but would also mean that it naturally doesn't hide in cities. This change would render my current radar network almost worthless, until I bought more engineers. On the other hand, it would mean that undeployed radar stations wouldn't get caught in the "scan all" command, which is a minor hassle at the moment. I think it is the nature of things that radar will be protected by flak if it is anywhere vulnerable.

To balance this in the next release I'd sprinkle these installation terrains around more and leave them unoccupied for someone to grab. If we did implement this here I'd take no issue with you using a line of code to swap terrains nearby where you have radar now so it isn't useless. And I agree it'll likely be defended but I think it would be more vulnerable outside of cities to being noticed and attacked.

Regarding the difficulty of deploying radar under this system, it does raise the concern that the player might favour scout patrols instead of radar installations, and that would be rather tedious.

Hopefully with the para drop function it wouldn't be too bad if there are available installation terrains in fairly useful places from the start of the game to occupy.

I tended to view the 15th airforce as something that I had to maintain in order to force the Germans to keep some fighters in the south, rather than something to use. One option is to give the 15th airforce the same movement allowance as the B24s, so even if they are vulnerable to annihilation, they at least get to reach their target.

I think that's how it was originally and then we thought "but then the bombers will never be intercepted until it is too late." In any event, I like your proposal and think it might fix things.

I'm lead to the conclusion that bombers must either do a lot more damage, or be much more survivable.

I think everyone who has played this game would agree with that at this point.

Another survivability option is to change combat so that severely damaging a bomber (or, perhaps any air) is not too difficult, but actually scoring the kill has a lower probability than ordinary combat would dictate. For example, once the aircraft is below 3 hp, any munition just has a 20% chance of killing, regardless of other factors. This would increase the value of the light gun aircraft, and dampen the rockets.

I very much like this idea. I think if we wanted to make rockets useful, maybe we change up the reactions so that they will only fire if a unit has greater than 3hp (or whatever amount)? That way, rockets are still useful to "break up" the bomber stream, meaning they'll be much less capable of defending as they carry on. We already have reduced payload for damaged bombers, so there's definitely an advantage to weakening as many as you can.

Another option for extra damage is to stop aircraft from healing (by setting the 'has moved' bit for all aircraft between turns). This way, damage done to fighters is permanent, or at least forces planes to be disbanded for a 50% "kill." Without healing, leaving a damaged plane doesn't mean that it is a free full health (and probably veteran) plane in a few turns, but a permanently weakened entity, so trying for the final kill is less appealing. Perhaps the allied advantage would be that they do get replacements for damaged aircraft, so they can heal, while the Germans can't.

I don't think we should do this - you haven't had to experience it yet, but what tends to happen is eventually I'll send giant formations towards you that will start to chew your fighters up. You'll (or at least I have) reach a point where you have to make deliberate decisions to rest them or they'll never survive any reaction. With the proposed change to escorts, it's much more likely they'll be engaged without realizing the danger, so the German player will really want to consider where and when they commit what.
 

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I hesitate to play while some major changes are up in the air.

I don't really think the onboard radar for Allied night fighters is particularly useful because the location of your assets isn't really secret - it's wherever bombers are burning. Radar jamming would be useful, but perhaps difficult to implement. I'd rather the Allies have a speedy bomber option than onboard radar that they can't use.

Maybe we just give see subs to the Allied fighters with radar equipped, though that might be a little too good. I'm fine with swapping out radar for a 250 lb bomb on the Allied night fighters. I never used radar on the night fighters much either. Perhaps, it might be best to give the Beaufighter and the Mosquito Mk XIII the bombs, and leave the Mosquito MK II with radar, so the Allies still have the option for radar if necessary (and alter the expiring techs accordingly, so the night fighter-bomber and radar user are both available).

However, if the Beaufighter has a bomb, I could almost see the Stirling not being used too much, since the extra bomb might not be enough to compensate for the Beaufighter's survivability and ability to attack enemy fighters. We might compensate by requiring the Beaufighter to be at full health to drop the bomb, or something. We might have to up the night bomber's payload as an alternative.

I think I'll put radar jamming in the category of "too much effort for a game that is supposed to be finished already." Maybe I'll change my mind later. We already have the pathfinder anyway.

I think that's how it was originally and then we thought "but then the bombers will never be intercepted until it is too late." In any event, I like your proposal and think it might fix things.

Under the current bomber combat system, I wouldn't hesitate to do this. If we use the "easy damage, hard kill" model, it might make southern Germany a bit too vulnerable, since the bombers will only be vulnerable the turn they attack.

I very much like this idea. I think if we wanted to make rockets useful, maybe we change up the reactions so that they will only fire if a unit has greater than 3hp (or whatever amount)? That way, rockets are still useful to "break up" the bomber stream, meaning they'll be much less capable of defending as they carry on. We already have reduced payload for damaged bombers, so there's definitely an advantage to weakening as many as you can.

This is my preferred idea, too. It also means that small numbers of reacting flak and fighters have some more value, as they can deter damaged units from making attacks.

The simplest implementation is all aircraft have the special "easy to damage, hard to kill" status. We could also have a table that lists the units that are "hard to kill," perhaps even with a chance of death dependant on the unit type, which wouldn't be much more difficult (except that you'd have to fill the table). I'm leaning to this as a bit more flexible, and the table could always be filled with all air units with a loop.

Do we want rockets to be able to 'finish off' stuff, or only bring units to low HP? Should vet units be harder to kill than rookies, or is the difficulty in bringing down damage sufficient?

To balance this in the next release I'd sprinkle these installation terrains around more and leave them unoccupied for someone to grab. If we did implement this here I'd take no issue with you using a line of code to swap terrains nearby where you have radar now so it isn't useless. And I agree it'll likely be defended but I think it would be more vulnerable outside of cities to being noticed and attacked.

Hopefully with the para drop function it wouldn't be too bad if there are available installation terrains in fairly useful places from the start of the game to occupy.

I did build a decent number of engineers in order to put fuel dumps on refineries, and they did spend a decent amount of time waiting around (a lot are now airfields), so while I think there should be scattered installations for radar, there don't have to be that many. I've checked, and it shouldn't be difficult to implement this.

I do think German bombers would become much less useful but to get at what I was hinting to earlier, maybe all German bombers should be able to attack at low alt? Then they could be used in the Battle of the Atlantic if the player wanted (I would probably start the Allies with an extra carrier if we go this route).

I'm not sure it is a great idea for German strategic bombers to be able to attack convoys and airfields. A decent force of them could be moved from place to place (and day to night) threatening a lot of different targets, which would require different units to defend them. Perhaps it wouldn't be as bad as I think, but I probably wouldn't bother building dedicated fighter-bombers for the Battle of the Atlantic, if I could just use 111s, that I could also attack ports and urban Centres with.

I think this is the list of possible changes. Let me know if I've missed anything, or there is something that shouldn't be done.

Events (Prof Garfield):
Radar stations can only detect on installation terrain. (Temporary event to allow our games to get installations in place.)
Must implement hard to kill.
Input needed: Should rockets be able to finish off enemies at the same rate as other munitions, or should they only be able to damage?
Input needed: Should veterans be harder to finish off than rookies?
Input needed: Should tactics technologies increase the probability of making the final kill?

Event Parameters (JPetroski):
Hard to kill table, if not uniform for all air units.
Hard to kill HP threshold, and chance to kill (will set at 3 and 20% when writing code)
Change radar and payload for Allied night fighters.
Change reaction range for certain air units.
Maybe allow German strategic bombers to attack at low level, as a general bomber.
Maybe change Task Force munitions (which we forgot about, will have to discuss).

Rules (JPetroski):
Change night fighter movement and range.
Perhaps change 15th AF movement and range.
Maybe make Task Forces direct attack units again (will have to discuss).
 
Here are the changes that I've made. You can tweak values and tables if necessary. I will assume you have the events.

specialNumbers.defaultSurvivalChance = 0.8 -- the default probability that a unit that will be killed by a munition will survive. See overTwoHundred.unitSurvivalChance
specialNumbers.survivalHP = 3 -- the remaining hitpoints of a unit that survives a munition attack that under standard combat rules should have been fatal


-- overTwoHundred.unitSurvivalChance[unitType.id] = number between 0 and 1
-- this is the probability that a unit killed by a munition will survive
-- so a 20% kill chance is represented by .8 survival chance
-- nil or false means 0 survival chance (i.e. ordinary combat rules apply)
overTwoHundred.unitSurvivalChance = {}
-- by default, air units except munitions have this survival chance
for i=0,127 do
if civ.getUnitType(i).domain == 1 and not (civ.getUnitType(i).type.flags & 0x1000 == 0x1000) then
overTwoHundred.unitSurvivalChance = specialNumbers.defaultSurvivalChance
end
end

-- if we want to modify the survival chance based on other factors, we
-- do it in this function
function overTwoHundred.getSurvivalChance(defender,attacker)
if attacker.type == unitAliases.A2ARockets then
-- under this system, rockets can damage but not kill
return 1
end
return overTwoHundred.unitSurvivalChance[defender.type.id] or 0
end

Radar stations now only work on installation terrain.

Pressing k with a radar station while on grassland will offer the choice to change it to an installation terrain, to compensate for this change.

search for the line -- temporary code to find the part to be removed later
 

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  • 9-June-Events.lua.zip
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I played the turn, since I think what I've done is close enough to how the final product will be that it made sense.

I killed a stirling on the ground, maybe I killed something else, too. I attacked a convoy, and I think an A20.
 

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  • PGGermans_a54.hot.zip
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I made edits to the game and will try and get a turn out tonight along with more substantive feedback (that may come tomorrow however).
 
-I added 1x 250lb bomb to the 1st Mossie and 1x 500lb to the 2nd Mossie.
-Beaufighter and 1st Mossie move 40 squares, 2nd Mossie moves 45. This is over 6 turns so it shouldn't be too overwhelming/loitering.
-Spits now react at range 3, P-47's 4,5,6, P-51's 7,8
-Most US escorts now intercept 3x rather than 2x
-Most US interceptors now intercept 1x at one square (last P-38 can intercept 2 squares).
-Removed radar from the night mossies for now - not sure it's useful to be honest. A "cool on paper" thing, I believe. I suppose Pathfinders could be given it to give them more meaning to exist.

-I left all units at hard to kill for now... Let's give it 5-10 turns and then reassess.

Input needed: Should rockets be able to finish off enemies at the same rate as other munitions, or should they only be able to damage?
Input needed: Should veterans be harder to finish off than rookies?
Input needed: Should tactics technologies increase the probability of making the final kill?

-I'm leaning towards rockets should remain very powerful attack.
-I don't think vets need to be harder to finish off - they already are by default since "finishing them off" requires beating them up to 3 hp in the first place, so they already have a vet advantage and I wouldn't stress about it
-I think we'll have a better read on tactics in 5-10 turns. Let's see how it goes but that may be a possibility.

In the game we killed a few U-Boats, as well as the port at St. Nazaire. Several raids launched to see if the new mechanisms make things more survivable.
 

Attachments

  • RulesandTurn55.zip
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Some B17s downed and damaged, but the force I brought to St. Nazaire would almost certainly have annihilated the bombers in the old system.

This system might actually mean that the ability of fighters to pursue bombers over a period of a couple turns might actually be important.

-I'm leaning towards rockets should remain very powerful attack.

Rockets now have the same chance of finishing off units as the other munitions.
 

Attachments

  • PGGermans_a55-event-tweak.zip
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Very interesting dynamic here where the best chance of killing seems to be with reactive attacks. It will be interesting to see how that plays out with the extended escort range.

Anyway, we are able to destroy Rotterdam's port though we take losses in the attack. We only end up downing 4 of your fighters despite expending 40+ attacks or so, though we do weaken many.
 

Attachments

  • JPAllies56.zip
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15 kills from 128 attacks. Half were P38s. More than a few units were damaged without an attempt to kill. Rocket armed FW190s were used a lot, since they can launch rockets and flee.

When you extended the reaction range of escorts, I presume that was also done for ME110s?

I've found that occasionally pressing 'w' cycles between 2 active units, even when other units are still available. This is a lua problem (part of the 'intelligent' selection that reduces jumping around and between maps), so I'll have to solve it at some point. At the moment, just make sure not to assume that you've finished moving and press ctrl+n if something like that happens.

Something to note is that 80% chance to survive an attack is different from a 20% chance to kill. The reason is that there is also a chance for a 3 hp plane to survive a munition attack 'naturally', in which case the 'hard to kill' mechanic doesn't even come into play. I haven't calculated the odds, but it does mean that a more powerful attack does still have a better chance to land a kill, and high defence units are less vulnerable to defeat even at low hp.

I think I'm done with placing installation terrain using the radar stations. Let me know when you are done, and I'll remove the code for the next events update.
 

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  • PGGermans_a56.hot.zip
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