OUTrage! Lies from Religion and History Textbooks.

[Dachs]

This Golden Age wasn't strictly Arab though. The various Arab dynasties, as well as the North African Fatimid and the Spanish Ummayad Dynasties all experienced this golden age, as did the Ottomans. All of these regions heavily traded with one another and all were linked by a common thread - Islam.

This Golden Age wasn't strictly Muslim either. The Umayyad and early 'Abbasid states, as well as the Umayyad splinter state in Cordoba and the Fatimids in Egypt experienced it, but so did their neighbor to the north. All of these regions heavily traded with one another...but there was no common thread. Since it's convenient to ignore the Byzantine revival that occurred at the same time as the primarily 'Abbasid Golden Age (and which was still going strong by the time the Cordoba caliphate splintered into taifas, fwiw), and instead label that empire as "moribund" and "in decline", the ninth-century Mediterranean period of flowering culture is ascribed primarily to the Muslim (or Arab, depending on who you talk to) political entities involved.

FWIW, the Ottoman period of greatness had basically nothing to do with the 'Abbasid-centered golden age, being separated by centuries of comparative decay, by the standards of those who describe history in such terms.

 

[jessiecat]

This Golden Age wasn't strictly Arab though. The various Arab dynasties, as well as the North African Fatimid and the Spanish Ummayad Dynasties all experienced this golden age, as did the Ottomans. All of these regions heavily traded with one another and all were linked by a common thread - Islam.

Good point. The Golden Age of Islamic Science (900-1300?) happened partly because Islam actively encouraged the seeking of knowledge of all kinds. While Christianity in the same period surpressed earlier Greek, Roman and Indian knowledge because they were considered pagan and against "God's word".

 

[Tekee]

Good point. The Golden Age of Islamic Science (900-1300?) happened partly because Islam actively encouraged the seeking of knowledge of all kinds. While Christianity in the same period surpressed earlier Greek, Roman and Indian knowledge because they were considered pagan and against "God's word".

Then in the religion textbook for the sections of ancient religions and Hinduism should've mentioned Hindu science. To be fair.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Hinduism doesn't really have much of a history of independent scientific inquiry, because most of modern history, Hinduism comingled with Islam in Indian society.

 

[Ecofarm]

Then in the religion textbook for the sections of ancient religions and Hinduism should've mentioned Hindu science. To be fair.

You have a point there. Referring to Mid-East Science as Islamic Science is crap. No doubt.

But Soviet food was more poisonous than US food and their system of production was a major factor in the fall of the Union. Further, the rationing system was basically genocidal.

 

[Tekee]

You have a point there. Referring to Mid-East Science as Islamic Science is crap. No doubt.

But Soviet food was more poisonous than US food and their system of production was a major factor in the fall of the Union. Further, the rationing system was basically genocidal.

Well I never heard Soviet Food mentioned before in the west since this Textbook. So I guess it is just common knowledge here in the west that is why it is in a textbook. While on the flip side of the coin their own food was the best and the West's food was hugely pesticide and hardly natural, so it is more like a chemical then a real food....

The rationing system at the end of the 80's was not even close to genocide. Especially since conditions were better in these Poland and Czech republic anyways who would it be genociding?
The rationing system was just what people had to wait in line to get LIMITED food but not substandard food. I don't care if they mention rationing but it should not be in the same list of factors as "poor quality food"
Nostalgia and Soviet Ice cream are the biggest memories my parents have and even today there is companies that claim to have the same taste as the old soviet ice creams.
I find all Western Ice Cream tastes like ice and is crap, turns into an icecicle. While the average soviet ice cream tasted more like Haagen Daz, that really expensive brand. But in soviet union this same taste of "real food" could have had at very low prices and was not a "luxury food".
No comment on Chocolate and other "luxury foods" lol

 

[Joecoolyo]

You have a point there. Referring to Mid-East Science as Islamic Science is crap. No doubt.

This is because it didn't only happen in the middle-east, for example, Spain, when under Arab influence (Moors, Umayyads, etc.) made huge strides in science, specifically medicine. And I don't think I would categorize Spain as "middle-eastern".

 

[ParkCungHee]

Not to mention in general it's better to leave out modern concepts like "The Middle East"

 

[civ_king]

Everyone knows that? More like a small minority thinks that.
Here's something I vaguely recall from a textbook years ago; that the main source of sugar in the USSR was sugar beet, whereas western countries had access to the superior sugar from sugar cane. Not sure how much this may have changed in the last few decades.

wrong, they bought it at above market price from their Cuban friends, I know this because when the USSR went down Cuba's economy went splat

Soviet life was harsh but productive until the leaders became bourgeois pigs like the Capitalists, then it was just harsh and went down hill, unless you were a scientist,

also about the Arabs, they built on knowledge from the Roman Empire and preserved it so that when Europe recovered they didn't have to reinvent the wheel (not literally, and the Irish helped too)

 

[Tekee]

Well in history have a small section on Science that came from regions controlled by Islam.

But not in a religion textbook. Especially if other religions are not given the same treatment. To imply that ONLY Islam created the conditions necessary to have this "Golden Age"

 

[Eat_Up_Martha]

It's kind of naive to get all worked up when text books (especially history and religious) spin facts like that; it happens all the time.

 

[Ecofarm]

I still don't see why we give credit for scientific strides to a religion. Correlation does not equal causation.

Arab or Mid-Asia (based) Science is more accurate. Unless, of course, we are willing to call Western Science... Christian Science.

Are Chinese innovations considered Confucian or Taoist science? No.

Are Indian innovations considered Hindu Science? No.

Ascribing scientific advancements to religion is farcical on its face. The case of "Islamic Science" is nothing more than geographical and historical laziness (or perhaps flat-out ****** propaganda). If the geography is widespread, let's go by time period or geographical ancestry... not the predominate backwards mythology of the time. Aside from being a stroke-job for islam, it's a slap in the face to the scientific method itself.

 

[ParkCungHee]

I still don't see why we give credit for scientific strides to a religion. Correlation does not equal causation.

Arab or Mid-Asia (based) Science is more accurate. Unless, of course, we are willing to call Western Science... Christian Science.

Actually there's a number of Intellectual Historians who wouldn't have a problem with that...

 

[Eat_Up_Martha]

I don't really see why it's a big deal. You're just using one particular identifier instead of another. The geographic location had just as little to do with the actual scientific work as the religion did. The science in question took place both in the Middle East and was done by Muslim scientists, it's just as fair to call it one or the other.
You're not claiming that it happened because of the location or the religion, but that it happened within them.

 

[Ecofarm]

You're not claiming that it happened because of the location or the religion, but that it happened within them.

I would say that calling it "islamic science" is definately a BECAUSE. That's why I propose using the time period or geographical ancestral roots... as accurate. "Islamic Science" is not only inaccurate, it is misleading. In fact, it is flat-out BS; there is nothing sciency about islam.

According to your apology, quoted above, all of the scientific work of Europe and the US is "Christian Science". Hey... it happend "within"... let's give them credit! Fact is, islam (and christianity for this matter) deserves scorn from a scientific standpoint, not praise and bogus credit. Its backwardsness and barbarism has done more to ****** science than promote it. If anything, it should be "despite-islam science", not "islamic science".


Next thing you know, we'll have despotic democracy. Spare me the oxymorons as historical fact, it's really insulting. Tekee is correct on this point; it's freaking outrageous.

 

[civ_king]

from wikipedia

Distillation
Ph
Coffee
sugar refinery
Damascus Steel
(Explosive) Gunpowder
Portable Firearms
Matchlocks
Kerosene and the lamps
Petroleum Industry
Surveying Instruments
Tar Roads/Pavement
Central Heating
Paper Mill
Stamp Mill (Used for crushing ore)
Windmills
Modern Soap/Soap Bar
Toothpaste
Public Libraries
Public Hospitals AKA Socialist Healthcare because it was free

 

[Ecofarm]

Public Libraries

Islam burned the Great Library. Public my ass. Try 'theocratic, repressive and manipulative government libraries'.

 

[cardgame]

Islam burned the Great Library. Public my ass. Try 'theocratic, repressive and manipulative libraries'.

WTH

Christians burned it down.

In 391, Christian Emperor Theodosius I destroyed it.

 

[Ecofarm]

WTH

Christians burned it down.

On accident. I was refering to the time it happened on purpose and completely.

Ancient and modern sources identify four possible occasions for the partial or complete destruction of the Library of Alexandria:

Julius Caesar's Fire in The Alexandrian War, in 48 BC
The attack of Aurelian in the third century AD;
The decree of Theophilus in AD 391;
The Muslim conquest in AD 642 or thereafter.

 

[cardgame]

On accident.

The decree of Theophilus in AD 391

DECREE != accidental?