Overall Civ Elimination Thread

[Derpy Hooves]

The difference is that you think the Civs should only be judged 'at Diety' level. Diety is not the most commonly played level by a long way. Many Diety level players prefer Immortal from what I have read. So elimination threads are only for Diety level players? If so I wish there was a Diety level subforum.

Do I think that? I think you either didn't read the entire discussion or are just confused, I was defending my reasoning for downvoting them, not berating someone for upvoting them.
You make me want to wish there was a subforum for low level players .

 

[ixias]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 16
Babylon - 17
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 18+1= 19
Inca - 20
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 7
Persia - 11
Poland - 23
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -17
Siam - 21+1= 22
Spain - 5-3= 2
Sweden - 14
Zulu - 22

Up voting Germany again for previously stated reasons. I love the versatility they now have with the UB. Production will aid with any VC.

This whole Spain thing has grown into a bit of a monster. I don't think anyone is saying they're bad; they just don't scale as well (difficulty-wise) as some of the other Civs. As has been mentioned, the higher difficulty levels (Emperor and up) make Spain a little less useful since other Civs will find the NW a bit sooner since they have additional units. They'll also generally get settled earlier too thanks to the increased production. While this isn't a discussion on which civ is best on Deity, usually the goal of the player is to get better and move up through the difficulty levels.




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[Troll4Hire]

Indeed it did, but i'm glad that i was able to read other, probably a bit more experienced players' opinions on the topic. Looking forward to a similar "raging" to break out for example about Sweden. I never was fan of the diplo-orientated UAs, maybe if i downvote Sweden again, i will be able to provoke it's fans to write whole essays about how can I be so blind or something.

And as for a plus, last time I mentioned that in my opinion the aztecs are gifted with a very brutal, but often foolishly underestimated cultural "booster" UA. The UB is also providing an unquestionably significant growth bonus, and while the UU at first sight might look rubbish, but that extra movement and combat bonus on jungles and forests makes it a great scouting unit and an effective barb-hunter as well - which is also crucial for an aztec player.
With those two (or three?) combined the aztecs are one of the few nations in this game who can cast a shadow on Poland's cultural monopoly.
(Not to mention that in case of running low on barbs - unline other naqtions with at least 1 point on the honor policy tree - the aztecs are capable of scraping together cultural points from CS's units, or even by killing players, making them an "omnivore" army when it comes to hunting units.

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 16 + 1 = 17
Babylon - 17
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 19
Inca - 20
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 7
Persia - 11
Poland - 23
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -17
Siam - 21
Spain - 2
Sweden - 14 - 3 = 11
Zulu - 22

 

[Vikings Diehard]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 17
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 19
Inca - 20
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 7
Persia - 11
Poland - 23 +1 = 24
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -17
Siam - 21
Spain - 2 - 3 = 0
Sweden - 11
Zulu - 22

Poland - Great UA who can't use free social policies. Ducal stable is very solid with gold and production bonuses and pastures are rather plentiful in my experience. Winged Hussar while I'm not a huge fan of the Lancer line I really do like its ability to force retreats, good for both offensive and defensive situations.

Spain - Finishing Spain off as I've never had much success with their UA and again not very impressed with their UUs. Others may have had better luck and success on various levels than I have but I'm voting on my experiences with this Civ and the settings I play on.

 

[Navelgazer]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 17 - 3 = 14
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 19
Inca - 20 + 1 = 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 7
Persia - 11
Poland - 24
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -17
Siam - 21
Sweden - 11
Zulu - 22

I'm not arguing against Babylon's overall strength. I'm just bringing my vote in as one of the Players For Fun. The walls of Babylon look beautiful and are very effective, and the Bowman is certainly nice, but, well...

The UA is very very good but combined with the UU and UB it feels just very confining to a certain style of gameplay. Specifically, a turtling kind of gameplay for a science victory, which is fine, but between the confinement and the ancient-era rise-era of the culture it feels dull in execution. Assyria may not be nearly as strong as Babylon, but it is far more interesting to play as, and that is a bigger factor for me (not that Assyria is in the running anymore itself.)

Inca, well, you all already know. The start-bias is almost a UA in and of itself, but combined with the gold benefits and movement and the terrace farms and even the sometimes-maligned UU frustrating enemies in the early game, the Inca are both basically God-Tier and also interesting to play as while being so.

 

[Kennan]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 14
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 19
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 7
Persia - 11 - 3 = 8
Poland - 24
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -17
Siam - 21
Sweden - 11 + 1 = 12
Zulu - 22

Sweden - I was very skeptic about them until I finally gave them a try. What's the point with giving up your GE or GS to get a CS ally??? Well you (normally) shouldn't do that. You can give GM, GProfet, GAmiral, GG, GWMA (if not going for cultural victory). And you will get tons of great people from your DOFs. Hakkepelita i kind of meh but when Caroleans comes around you get a massive meat shield (perfect to combo with cover promotion) that can be used both for offence and defense. If you play your diplomacy cards smart, you can land grab from the most hated AIs while still keeping your DOF. Really strong, diverse and fun to play! I had Immortal victories before but with Sweden was the first time I super-steam-rolled everybody else.

Persia - I really, really want to like them but they just don't do it for me. Never got their synergies rolling and since golden ages became more scarce they received a major nerf.

 

[Matjillam]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 14
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 19
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 7 - 3 = 4
Persia - 8
Poland - 24
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -17 +1 = 18
Siam - 21
Sweden - 12
Zulu - 22

Shoshone - if you can get those 4-5 goody huts at the beginning, you are ROLLING. Those +2 pop, culture and 2 techs gives you a MAJOR headstart, making it easier to grab those key wonders and key city spots. A good start means everything! And that landgrab can be awesome when putting down early cities close to AI's. "Oh, you want that silk on your next cultue pop in Jenne? Sry, but I'm putting down my city 3 tiles away, and I'm getting it first "

Mongolia - + 30 % vs City states are worthless. You get major diplo hits for even taking them, resulting in a lot of war. Which means you have to spend time making units and not science.

 

[greygamer]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 14
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 19
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 5 Best warmongers, even against China
Persia - 8
Poland - 24
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -15 I don't like 'em
Siam - 21
Sweden - 12
Zulu - 22

 

[jlim201]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 14
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 19
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 2- I like a good overall civ, not a civ that has one of the best UUs and one of the worst UAs. I like a balanced civ.
Persia - 8
Poland - 25- Poland is an example of a good overall civ. Policies can help with all VC.
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -15
Siam - 21
Sweden - 12
Zulu - 22

 

[Væringjar]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 14
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 19
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 3- The best UU in game.
Persia - 5
Poland - 22- Policies is good but rest of them isn't so great though
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -15
Siam - 21
Sweden - 12
Zulu - 22

 

[Derpy Hooves]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 14
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 19
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 0
Persia - 8
Poland - 23
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -15
Siam - 21
Sweden - 12
Zulu - 22

Hate to be voting for Poland again, but these guy's are definitely higher tier then most of the high tiers in here, they're somewhat on the boring side, but free policies is incredibly powerful, not to mention +15% production in every city, extra cash from pastures, what's not to like, really? I mean christ, China is so high up mostly because of it's UB, and the only thing that that does is give 2 gold, with 2 sheeps and a horse in a city Poland has them beat, not to mention a flat 15% production bonus on everything.

The mongols used to be one of the most fun civs to play, but all the nerfs to warring really screwed them over, the only thing they really do at this point is allow the player to start warring about an era earlier, and leaves you with a load of horse unit's who's promotions don't do anything for the cavalry they'll upgrade into.
In vannila and GnK the strongest warmonger in the game, but when you take away all the usefulness and fun out of early warmongering (the AI instantly hating you is one thing, but managing your happyness and cashflow just takes all the fun away) they just become obselete.
I really wonder if they intended to only make warring viable once ideologies kick in with their insane happyness boosts, either way, perhaps Firaxis fixes this idiotic metagame at some point and we'll see the mongols rise to glory again in a elimination thread half a year from now, but for now, they're out.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 7
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 11 Good UA, possibly the best, but that's all they got going for them. Otherwise they're a boring bland civ. Both uniques have been made borderline pointless after the expansions. They're doing great in the UA thread but I don't like them in the overall thread.
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 20 If you haven't played the new Germany you should. They've gone from being a pigeon-holed dom civ to being very versatile. The UA allows you to almost completely ignore building units in the ancient and most of the classical eras so you can focus on wonders and infrastructure. It also is a solid economic UA since unit maintenance is often the second highest expenditure and its savings are actually better than the Zulu's because the bulk of most armies are made of ranged units. The UB might be one of the best in the game. Extra hammers can lead to any VC.
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Mongols - 3
Persia - 5
Poland - 22
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -15
Siam - 21
Sweden - 12
Zulu - 22

 

[Chippeth]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 4
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 11
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 20
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Persia - 5
Poland - 23
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -15
Siam - 22
Sweden - 12
Zulu - 22

This is getting really difficult to downvote. I ended up going with Austria because I prefer Venice, and am still bitter about them leaving early. Although those coffee houses are nice, they are beat by Sweden's UA. UU is nothing remarkable.

And Siam are just sexy, and, although it isn't really relevant anymore, I did enjoy using the Legalism-Wat trick.

 

[bbbt]

Austria - 4
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 11
China - 25
England - 25 Strong on water, strong on land, and the extra spy is definitely nice
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 20
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Persia - 5
Poland - 23
Portugal - 15The UA is great for gold generation, but I never got the UI and UB to work as well as I expected
Shoshone -15
Siam - 22
Sweden - 12
Zulu - 22

I concur that it's getting difficult. I basically like all the civs.

 

[mposyncckh]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 4+1=5
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 11-3=8
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 20
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Persia - 5
Poland - 23
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -15
Siam - 22
Sweden - 12
Zulu - 22


I leave for a day or two and all you are trying to kill my Austrians. I honestly do not get it I would love to have a Spain like discussion about Austria because I do not get any of the hate to be honest. Please please explain why. Their UA is fantasic the fact you now wait 5 turns to marry and pay a bit more gold is nothing. You can expand in all aspects without having to build a large military the states hand everything to you on a golden platter for goodness sake. It is the most interesting military ability and the best way to expand period. Their UB is also great + GP points everywhere production for everything not just buildings. Yes please. In order to gain more great people points then Austria Sweden would have to be friends with 3 civs. I've never been able to stay friends with ai civs because they are sporadic and I don't know anyone who would declare friendship with you in multiplayer. Even though they get a boost it isn't worth possibly letting the Swedes get massive great people points. Their Unit isn't near as bad as people think I don't think it is the best cavalry replacement but it isn't the worst(here's looking at you Shoshone)

Babylon good ability boring useless UB and UU. Pass. I'd rather have large amount of science with something else so I'll pick a different civ thank you

 

[arand86]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 2 I'm not sure if I just don't know how to use Austria correctly, or they're a lot worse than may make them out to be. The UA may be situationally useful, but picking up a CS will make you quite unhappy quite fast and costs good money. You'd be better off holding the ally as a vote in the WC and a generator of whatever they generate. The coffee house is nice, although you lose a little production, and I like to settle cities on hills. The hussar also a solid unit, although I don't use mounted units much bar the Keshik.
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 9 Yeah. No idea why babylon's taking so much crap as undoubtedly one of the best civs in the game. Science is everything, and nobody beats babylon at science.
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 20
Inca - 21
Korea - 23
Maya - 24
Persia - 5
Poland - 23
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -15
Siam - 22
Sweden - 12
Zulu - 22

 

[Lights]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 2
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 9
China - 25
England - 24
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 20
Inca - 21
Korea - 24 Best Science civ, there's no competitor, his bonus can't be stopped by any WC proposal.
Maya - 24
Persia - 5
Poland - 23
Portugal - 18
Shoshone -15
Siam - 22
Sweden - 9 I feel uncomfortable playing them i don't know if going diplo, warmongering... I hate giving GP, but the GP generation is nice, if you are not warmongering...
Zulu - 22

 

[Navelgazer]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 2
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 9
China - 25
England - 25
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 20
Inca - 21
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Persia - 5
Poland - 23
Portugal - 15
Shoshone -15
Siam - 22
Sweden - 9
Zulu - 22

bbbt's response seems to have gotten steamrolled, so I'm just correcting for it.

 

[Memoryjar]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 2
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 9 -3 = 6 : Strong UA, but weakest UU and UB. I don't how to play it in another victory but science. Boring in time.
China - 25
England - 25 + 1 = 26 : My first pick for warmonging. Thanks to UUs and additionnal spy.
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 20
Inca - 21
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Persia - 5
Poland - 23
Portugal - 15
Shoshone -15
Siam - 22
Sweden - 9
Zulu - 22

 

[Merciorum]

Arabia - 23
Austria - 0 I do like Austria, but it is somewhat less powerful now Venice is around. The UB is good, the UU fairly standard. There just aren't really any bad civs left, so I'm afraid I'll have to give Austria the death-knell.
Aztec - 17
Babylon - 7 The UU and UB are irrelevant in the face of the UA. It's just awesome.
China - 25
England - 26
Ethiopia - 22
Germany - 20
Inca - 21
Korea - 24
Maya - 24
Persia - 5
Poland - 23
Portugal - 15
Shoshone -15
Siam - 22
Sweden - 9
Zulu - 22