Viregel
, The Rt. Hon.
I'll get round to that in the next couple of days, if I have time.
Overall Civ Elimination Thread
- Thread starter jlim201
- Start date
I'll get round to that in the next couple of days, if I have time.
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 6
China - 8 - 3 = 5
England - 4 + 1 = 5
Germany - 5
Inca - 19
Korea - 25
Maya - 8
Poland - 23
Somehow Germany disappeared, I put them back in.
I was hoping to upvote someone else today, but England is tracking the wrong way. There are several other remaining civs that need to go before them imo. Same reasoning as last time. Cargo Ships = growth = everything. Longbows are elite offensive units. SotL are elite naval units and naval dominance matters, even on Pangaea. There is plenty of tech to steal in domination games when you don’t end up 2-3 eras ahead of the AI, but even if there isn’t, extra CS influence is just as good.
I down-voted Germany last time but I don’t think China is much better. China has good early GPT and a neat defensive combo with Citadels and CKN, but without the growth, faith, or SP benefits, it’s a bit top-heavy. Nothing China has is as consistently good as the free SPs, Faith, Food, Science, etc that most of the other remaining civs have.
Aztec - 6
China - 8 - 3 = 5
England - 4 + 1 = 5
Germany - 5
Inca - 19
Korea - 25
Maya - 8
Poland - 23
Somehow Germany disappeared, I put them back in.
I was hoping to upvote someone else today, but England is tracking the wrong way. There are several other remaining civs that need to go before them imo. Same reasoning as last time. Cargo Ships = growth = everything. Longbows are elite offensive units. SotL are elite naval units and naval dominance matters, even on Pangaea. There is plenty of tech to steal in domination games when you don’t end up 2-3 eras ahead of the AI, but even if there isn’t, extra CS influence is just as good.
I down-voted Germany last time but I don’t think China is much better. China has good early GPT and a neat defensive combo with Citadels and CKN, but without the growth, faith, or SP benefits, it’s a bit top-heavy. Nothing China has is as consistently good as the free SPs, Faith, Food, Science, etc that most of the other remaining civs have.
jlim201
King
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 7- Basically a free policy, improved (honor opener) and several almost free policies. Killing units is usually necessary to win.
China - 5
England - 5
Germany - 2- Sorry Germany, the Hanse is not enough to save you.
Inca - 19
Korea - 25
Maya - 8
Poland - 23
Aztec - 7- Basically a free policy, improved (honor opener) and several almost free policies. Killing units is usually necessary to win.
China - 5
England - 5
Germany - 2- Sorry Germany, the Hanse is not enough to save you.
Inca - 19
Korea - 25
Maya - 8
Poland - 23
sendos
Immortal
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 7
China - 5
England - 5
Germany - 0 Worst one left. Hanse is pretty good, panzer comes in rather late and is therefore not so useful, UA is pretty good in building an army without using your cities, but upgrading barbarians can cost a little more (upgrade brute to swordsmen and it costs 120 gold in contrast to 80 gold for upgrading warrior to swordsmen).
Inca - 19
Korea - 26 Strong science civ + reasonable defensive UU's terra marique.
Maya - 5
Poland - 23
Aztec - 7
China - 5
England - 5
Germany - 0 Worst one left. Hanse is pretty good, panzer comes in rather late and is therefore not so useful, UA is pretty good in building an army without using your cities, but upgrading barbarians can cost a little more (upgrade brute to swordsmen and it costs 120 gold in contrast to 80 gold for upgrading warrior to swordsmen).
Inca - 19
Korea - 26 Strong science civ + reasonable defensive UU's terra marique.
Maya - 5
Poland - 23
ixias
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2012
- Messages
- 207
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 7
China - 5-3=2
England - 5+1=6
Inca - 19
Korea - 26
Maya - 8
Poland - 23
Well this poll has gone an interesting direction! I was expecting the top 3 to be Korea, Poland and the Mayans. I think the winner is going to be either Korea or Poland now, but I think third is anyone's game. And I am a bit sad to see Germany go, but I think it was getting to be its time.
My vote goes to England this time. I've seen a lot of people say that England is too navel-oriented, which confuses me a bit since that's only one part of them. First off, England is probably the best navel Civ between the extra movement and the amazing Ship of the Line, so that right there is great because almost all maps have at least one body of water. The extra movement also helps defend your trade routes and rush to meet everyone for the WC. Second, England also receives and extra spy and one of the best land UUs available. The extra spy is great on Deity because you can start stealing from two AI. On other difficulties, you can use one for defense and one for offense before any the Civ. The Longbowman is great for offense and defense. It also upgrades to two-range gats, which is just silly good.
I decided to down-vote China. As great as their are at war, they're fairly one-dimensional. Probably the best UU in the game IMO, but, again, I think VC diversity makes a civ great and I think they're a bit too Dom oriented.
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Aztec - 7
China - 5-3=2
England - 5+1=6
Inca - 19
Korea - 26
Maya - 8
Poland - 23
Well this poll has gone an interesting direction! I was expecting the top 3 to be Korea, Poland and the Mayans. I think the winner is going to be either Korea or Poland now, but I think third is anyone's game. And I am a bit sad to see Germany go, but I think it was getting to be its time.
My vote goes to England this time. I've seen a lot of people say that England is too navel-oriented, which confuses me a bit since that's only one part of them. First off, England is probably the best navel Civ between the extra movement and the amazing Ship of the Line, so that right there is great because almost all maps have at least one body of water. The extra movement also helps defend your trade routes and rush to meet everyone for the WC. Second, England also receives and extra spy and one of the best land UUs available. The extra spy is great on Deity because you can start stealing from two AI. On other difficulties, you can use one for defense and one for offense before any the Civ. The Longbowman is great for offense and defense. It also upgrades to two-range gats, which is just silly good.
I decided to down-vote China. As great as their are at war, they're fairly one-dimensional. Probably the best UU in the game IMO, but, again, I think VC diversity makes a civ great and I think they're a bit too Dom oriented.
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ixias
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2012
- Messages
- 207
Sagax
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2013
- Messages
- 1,795
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 7
China - 3
England - 3
Inca - 19
Korea - 26
Maya - 8
Poland - 23
They deserve to go down together. As good as longbowmen are, eventually line of sight becomes quite an issue. Ships are great, and people are right about "there will be water on almost any map". But good luck conquering cities hidden in hills at the heart of the continent.
Aztec - 7
China - 3
England - 3
Inca - 19
Korea - 26
Maya - 8
Poland - 23
They deserve to go down together. As good as longbowmen are, eventually line of sight becomes quite an issue. Ships are great, and people are right about "there will be water on almost any map". But good luck conquering cities hidden in hills at the heart of the continent.
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2013
- Messages
- 2,387
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 7
China - 0
England - 4
Inca - 19
Korea - 26
Maya - 8
Poland - 23
Sorry China, I don't like you much in Civ 6. Library is overrated, Chu-Ko-Nu is great, UA is also nice, but warmongering UA doesn't fit China. Should be more, dunno, about science? Growth? Maybe both? Anyway, it's still the weakest of this bunch, and the fact I don't find China a fitting warmonger civ only adds salt to the wound.
+1 to England. It shouldn't go down yet. Both UU's are brilliant, and the UA is also great. It doesn't deserve to go yet...
Aztec - 7
China - 0
England - 4
Inca - 19
Korea - 26
Maya - 8
Poland - 23
Sorry China, I don't like you much in Civ 6. Library is overrated, Chu-Ko-Nu is great, UA is also nice, but warmongering UA doesn't fit China. Should be more, dunno, about science? Growth? Maybe both? Anyway, it's still the weakest of this bunch, and the fact I don't find China a fitting warmonger civ only adds salt to the wound.
+1 to England. It shouldn't go down yet. Both UU's are brilliant, and the UA is also great. It doesn't deserve to go yet...
VicRatlhead5199
King
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 8 Great UB and start bias for science. The UA and UU combine for solid scouting and a lot of early culture. The Aztecs can often finish tradition faster than any other civ, even after adopting the honor opener. Their massive jungle cities are perfect for the tall empires that the BNW SV requires and they can often compete with Korea and Babylon if played by a competent player.
England - 4
Inca - 19
Korea - 26
Maya - 7 UU is pathetic, UA is strong but mitigated by the fact that you can't repeat choices.
Poland - 23
Aztec - 8 Great UB and start bias for science. The UA and UU combine for solid scouting and a lot of early culture. The Aztecs can often finish tradition faster than any other civ, even after adopting the honor opener. Their massive jungle cities are perfect for the tall empires that the BNW SV requires and they can often compete with Korea and Babylon if played by a competent player.
England - 4
Inca - 19
Korea - 26
Maya - 7 UU is pathetic, UA is strong but mitigated by the fact that you can't repeat choices.
Poland - 23
Sturmgewher88mm
Kaiser
TBH, before 1953 China spent more time at war than not.
So, I feel pretty bad because this is my fault, even though I don't know how it could happen since I just C/Ped the previous rankings, but somehow in my previous post when I upped England and downed China and discovered that Germany had gone missing, Mayans went from 18 to 8. And then I also noticed that in Vic's post he only subtracted 1 from Mayans when he downed them (they are currently at 7 and no one else has touched them).
So if I've tracked everything down properly, Mayans should currently be at 15. The other rankings look proper. Please let this be reflected in the next poster's rankings. Again, my apologies for the transcription error.
So if I've tracked everything down properly, Mayans should currently be at 15. The other rankings look proper. Please let this be reflected in the next poster's rankings. Again, my apologies for the transcription error.
Vikings Diehard
Chieftain
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 8
England - 4+1= 5
Inca - 19-3= 16
Korea - 26
Maya - 15
Poland - 23
Fixed the Maya score
England - The overall combination of UUs and UAs find them very useful for all victory types. Extra spy is great even if you are ahead you can keep one in your capital and still have a spy for other purposes. Ship of the Line and bonus water movement is just gravy to the Longbowmen and their upgradeable free range promo.
The Inca - Just don't find the terrace farm and the UA compelling enough to keep them among whats left, the UU is very poor.
Aztec - 8
England - 4+1= 5
Inca - 19-3= 16
Korea - 26
Maya - 15
Poland - 23
Fixed the Maya score
England - The overall combination of UUs and UAs find them very useful for all victory types. Extra spy is great even if you are ahead you can keep one in your capital and still have a spy for other purposes. Ship of the Line and bonus water movement is just gravy to the Longbowmen and their upgradeable free range promo.
The Inca - Just don't find the terrace farm and the UA compelling enough to keep them among whats left, the UU is very poor.
VicRatlhead5199
King
Oops good catch. I had to edit mine quick and screwed it up. Originally I had China as my down vote but they got eliminated while I was typing (guess I can be long winded sometimes).
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 8
England - 2
Inca - 16
Korea - 26
Maya - 16
Poland - 23
I really didn't want to downvote any of these; England is a really cool Civ and everyone left has interesting mechanics to use (although I think England and Poland don't really alter your playstyle in an interesting way, just make you better at doing the basic strategy).
I upvoted the Mayans because they can have a very interesting start. Build Atlatlists right away and go hunt the crap out of barbs, get a pyramid and rest easy with a little buffer science (I can honestly say that this is a really powerful building; maybe best ancient building after the Stele, if only because the Stele is available sooner). Also the Mayan UA is a fun bonus and it allows for some more interesting boosting and control. Lastly, Pacal is just so cool, and I have a special place in my heart for the awesome language and civilization of the Mayans.
Aztec - 8
England - 2
Inca - 16
Korea - 26
Maya - 16
Poland - 23
I really didn't want to downvote any of these; England is a really cool Civ and everyone left has interesting mechanics to use (although I think England and Poland don't really alter your playstyle in an interesting way, just make you better at doing the basic strategy).
I upvoted the Mayans because they can have a very interesting start. Build Atlatlists right away and go hunt the crap out of barbs, get a pyramid and rest easy with a little buffer science (I can honestly say that this is a really powerful building; maybe best ancient building after the Stele, if only because the Stele is available sooner). Also the Mayan UA is a fun bonus and it allows for some more interesting boosting and control. Lastly, Pacal is just so cool, and I have a special place in my heart for the awesome language and civilization of the Mayans.
Navelgazer
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2012
- Messages
- 1,153
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 5
England - 2
Inca - 17
Korea - 26
Maya - 16
Poland - 23
I like the Aztecs, I really do. But of the civs remaining, I've got to consider that Aztec has a UB which is extremely situational (amazing if you've got a lot of lake tiles, which are rarer than marshes on any maps I play) and a great UU and UA which simply force me into a play strategy that frustrates a lot of things I like to do. I need to spam Jaguars and work Honor early in order to make the most of the uniques, which cuts down on my settlement and other infrastructure building. It's workable, and a lot of fun for a culture victory (at least back in G+K when I did that) but not playing with this crowd anymore.
Inca have the best start situation in terms of production, and movement and food bonuses to erase any drawbacks to living in the mountains. Hammers are always the top priority, in my book, and so I truly believe there is no better civ in the game.
Aztec - 5
England - 2
Inca - 17
Korea - 26
Maya - 16
Poland - 23
I like the Aztecs, I really do. But of the civs remaining, I've got to consider that Aztec has a UB which is extremely situational (amazing if you've got a lot of lake tiles, which are rarer than marshes on any maps I play) and a great UU and UA which simply force me into a play strategy that frustrates a lot of things I like to do. I need to spam Jaguars and work Honor early in order to make the most of the uniques, which cuts down on my settlement and other infrastructure building. It's workable, and a lot of fun for a culture victory (at least back in G+K when I did that) but not playing with this crowd anymore.
Inca have the best start situation in terms of production, and movement and food bonuses to erase any drawbacks to living in the mountains. Hammers are always the top priority, in my book, and so I truly believe there is no better civ in the game.
Kintara
Warlord
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 6 So...Fresh water is widespread, and settling next to it means I unlock the Gardens percentage bonus for the whole city. Lakes, which a normal civ has to deal with as an average tile, is improved considerably. No ugly dead tiles to worry about when going tall. But the Floating Gardens is not mainly about the lakes bonus. Example: A size 10 city with +10 food generates 30 food and eats 20. The Floating Gardens would add 4.5 food just from its percentage bonus. Note how that's a 45% growth bonus, lakes or no.
England - 2
Inca - 14 Sorry to box back this vote, but the Inca do not cancel all the drawbacks to living in the mountains. Mountains are still unworkable tiles. If you settle too closely then your efficient terrace farm tiles are a mere consolation prize rather than pure gold...assuming you even get a serious mountain range and not a little spattering or nothing. That's the main problem. The mountains aren't always next to hills. And sheep, dammit! It's so very finicky, and I don't see why I should be impressed by the start bias, really. I just checked it again, and getting no mountains seems common.
Korea - 26
Maya - 16
Poland - 23
Aztec - 6 So...Fresh water is widespread, and settling next to it means I unlock the Gardens percentage bonus for the whole city. Lakes, which a normal civ has to deal with as an average tile, is improved considerably. No ugly dead tiles to worry about when going tall. But the Floating Gardens is not mainly about the lakes bonus. Example: A size 10 city with +10 food generates 30 food and eats 20. The Floating Gardens would add 4.5 food just from its percentage bonus. Note how that's a 45% growth bonus, lakes or no.
England - 2
Inca - 14 Sorry to box back this vote, but the Inca do not cancel all the drawbacks to living in the mountains. Mountains are still unworkable tiles. If you settle too closely then your efficient terrace farm tiles are a mere consolation prize rather than pure gold...assuming you even get a serious mountain range and not a little spattering or nothing. That's the main problem. The mountains aren't always next to hills. And sheep, dammit! It's so very finicky, and I don't see why I should be impressed by the start bias, really. I just checked it again, and getting no mountains seems common.
Korea - 26
Maya - 16
Poland - 23
isau
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2007
- Messages
- 3,071
Arabia - 16
Aztec - 6
England - 2 - 3 = DEAD
Inca - 14
Korea - 26
Maya - 16
Poland - 23 +1 = 24
England, you're good. I like your archers and your ships. Your movement bonuses are a plus. But your time has come. Eliminated.
I've already bumped the Aztecs up twice. Instead, this time Poland gets the boost. I think they're about equally good, but that means I need to spread the love around. Too bad Sweden dropped off early, because it should be here fighting with the rest. But all's fair in war.
Aztec - 6
England - 2 - 3 = DEAD
Inca - 14
Korea - 26
Maya - 16
Poland - 23 +1 = 24
England, you're good. I like your archers and your ships. Your movement bonuses are a plus. But your time has come. Eliminated.
I've already bumped the Aztecs up twice. Instead, this time Poland gets the boost. I think they're about equally good, but that means I need to spread the love around. Too bad Sweden dropped off early, because it should be here fighting with the rest. But all's fair in war.
Navelgazer
Emperor
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2012
- Messages
- 1,153
I recognize your arguments, Kintara. For me, the mountain bonus from terrace farms are just gravy (as well as the admittedly smaller science bonus you get from observatories.) What matters to me is the production bonus from being in hills. In my pretty simple way of handling the early game the Incan UA/start bias means a couple of very real things:
1.) Early wonders.
2.) I can use warriors instead of scouts, meaning that I can be versatile in my early game, both grabbing Goody Huts and taking out encampments for newfound City-States, and I can build my monument first without trepidation.
3.) That monument will be finished in 7 turns instead of 8 or 10, meaning I can put production into a worker before Pottery is finished and I start my work on a shrine, and start getting faith pumping earlier than all but Ethiopia and The Celts.
Not to even mention the crazy defensive bonuses. Both the Inca and Aztec have food-based Uniques, which themselves are based on exploiting unreliable terrain. I just find the somewhat-more-reliable Terrace Farm to be better in the long run than the less reliable, but more exploitable-in-a-perfect-roll Floating Garden.
1.) Early wonders.
2.) I can use warriors instead of scouts, meaning that I can be versatile in my early game, both grabbing Goody Huts and taking out encampments for newfound City-States, and I can build my monument first without trepidation.
3.) That monument will be finished in 7 turns instead of 8 or 10, meaning I can put production into a worker before Pottery is finished and I start my work on a shrine, and start getting faith pumping earlier than all but Ethiopia and The Celts.
Not to even mention the crazy defensive bonuses. Both the Inca and Aztec have food-based Uniques, which themselves are based on exploiting unreliable terrain. I just find the somewhat-more-reliable Terrace Farm to be better in the long run than the less reliable, but more exploitable-in-a-perfect-roll Floating Garden.
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