Overall Civ Elimination Thread

[Kintara]

Not to even mention the crazy defensive bonuses. Both the Inca and Aztec have food-based Uniques, which themselves are based on exploiting unreliable terrain. I just find the somewhat-more-reliable Terrace Farm to be better in the long run than the less reliable, but more exploitable-in-a-perfect-roll Floating Garden.

I don't understand why you would think so. If you don't have mountains, and no mountains starts seem common from what I've seen, then they're little better than wet hills. The main bonus, in my opinion, of terrace farms, are actually the early benefit of working those hybrid tiles, assuming you get some good ones. But it's a mixed blessing, not pure long term gold, due to the danger of being topped out later on.

There is really no way, in my opinion, that the Floating Gardens are less reliable. They apply their bonus to every single food point you generate in the city. The lakes bonus isn't about exploiting unreliable terrain at all. The lakes aspect, in fact, helps you build water mills in more cities than you otherwise might be able to.

 

[Navelgazer]

And I can agree to disagree with you there - I think that comes down to playing differently and different luck with rolls/maps. But Hills on their own are to me probably the best start in the game. Jungle probably the worst.

[Edit: the fact that Floating Gardens are a UB and Terrace Farms a UI is a big mechanical win in the Aztecs' favor, though, to be sure.]

 

[Kintara]

And I can agree to disagree with you there - I think that comes down to playing differently and different luck with rolls/maps. But Hills on their own are to me probably the best start in the game. Jungle probably the worst.

[Edit: the fact that Floating Gardens are a UB and Terrace Farms a UI is a big mechanical win in the Aztecs' favor, though, to be sure.]

We'll likely have a few more chances to discuss the Inca during the voting, but I certainly do like having nice production tiles as well. And jungle science takes effort to capitalize on, that's for sure.

Edit:

 

[Navelgazer]

Hooray for constructive discussion!

 

[Vraslosken]

Arabia - 13 Annoying starting bias, and the new UA is weaker than the previous.
Aztec - 6
Inca - 14
Korea - 26
Maya - 17 With China gone, this is my new favourite. The best UB of all, and the UA allows some interesting strategies.
Poland - 24

 

[Troll4Hire]

Arabia - 13 - 3 = 10.
Aztec - 6
Inca - 14 + 1 = 15.
Korea - 26
Maya - 17
Poland - 24

It's hard to choose when we're almost at the top 5. I think arabia has a great UU ( i really liked their camel archers (however i still find it funny and somewhat confusing how they convert horses into camels... ), UB is also good if you have a few fellas who are willing to trade with you. But the new UA with the extended caravan range can be rather disappointing. I'd never send early land caravans to anywhere further than my own borders, since I often cannot afford to lose one on a random barbarian ambush, and by the time i probably send a few outside my borders, i also manage to get the building itself which increases the range. The 2x oil is nice, but in case of BNW Arabia comes too late in my opinion.

As for the Incas, this time i'll just let the picture do most of the talking.

If you manage to find places like this, you can get an insane economical advantage. Terrace farms are incredibly useful. I almost managed to turn a simple hill into friggin' Lake Victoria.

 

[Loucypher]

Arabia - 10 - 3 = 7
Aztec - 6 + 1 = 7
Inca - 15
Korea - 26
Maya - 17
Poland - 24

The Arabs have been nerfed by their new UA. Camel Archers, while cool, face a loss of their accumulated promotions, meaning that while they're useful in medieval times, they falter later. It's a cool civ, sure, but due to their new UA, they're just not as good to me as the remaining civs.
Bumping up the Aztecs as they're just so much better then given credit for. Sure, early warmongering is nerfed. But you can still get some very well experienced Jaguars rolling out, and those become true superunits in the later game. The added food means bigger cities means more science. They also get a culture bonus, and I just don't think there's many civs who get so many bonuses, even if each bonus on its own is more subtle then, say, Babylon's.

 

[greygamer]

Notice how one by one it's the military civs that are being eliminated, leaving the sim-city civs only

 

[Arcaian]

Arabia -7
Aztec - 7
Inca - 15+1 = 16. Terrace farms are great, the hill bias is lovely, the +50% science you get from your mountains is nice. Road maintenance is good for all empires (though very nice for wide) and lets you settle your cities over double as far for the same profit (due to free roads on hills).
Korea - 26-3 = 23 Korea is by no means the #1 civ left here. Their science bonus is awfully nice, but only marginally better than Babylon's, their UU ship is not that great and their UU siege engine is horrible for siege. UUs are OK, but nothing special, UA is very nice but doesn't make up for average UUs, similar to Babylon. Both are good, but not #1.
Maya - 17
Poland - 24

 

[Bagi]

Arabia -7
Aztec - 4
Inca - 16
Korea - 23
Maya - 17
Poland - 24

As much as I love playing as Monty and hunting barbs with my jaguars, I just think he is outmatched in this club. The jungle bias is especially painful, I'm surprised Brazil gets so much more flack for it.

I'm still convinced Poland is the best civ in the game, solidarity is just horrifically strong.

 

[Kintara]

As much as I love playing as Monty and hunting barbs with my jaguars, I just think he is outmatched in this club. The jungle bias is especially painful, I'm surprised Brazil gets so much more flack for it.

Brazil has the brazilwood camp. The Floating Gardens doesn't really lose anything by being in plains instead. And one of the main problems of being in the jungle is that line of sight is terrible and so is movement speed, which makes barbarians irritating to deal with, unless you have Jaguars.

Or to put it another way: start biases aren't reliable.

 

[Derpy Hooves]

Arabia -4
Aztec - 4
Inca - 16
Korea - 23
Maya - 18
Poland - 24

Arabia, great stuff but garbage start bias, camels lose upgrades and these days the AI is so on top of trading it's often times difficult to peddle all your wares.

Maya, super early great scientist AND a science UB, what more is there to say.

 

[Memoryjar]

Arabia -4
Aztec - 4
Inca - 16 + 1 = 17 : My first OCC victory due to start base with mountain, culture terrasse and UA for my archers.
Korea - 23 - 3 = 20 : Great UA if you have specialists. Navy is awful. UU unnecessary because crossbowmen.
Maya - 18
Poland - 25

I corrected Bagi vote.

 

[cpm4001]

Arabia -4 + 1 = 5 - Desert is garbage start? You almost always end up near Floodplains and/or Oases and have a good shot at Desert Folklore and Petra. Plus their UU and UB are great, and allow you to play peacefully or warmongery.
Aztec - 4
Inca - 17 - 3 = 14 - Too weak to remain in the top five. You need a very good map to take full use of the UI, the UA is okay but not the best, and the UU is junk.
Korea - 23 - 3 = 20
Maya - 18
Poland - 25

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

Arabia -4
Aztec - 5 Probably a lost cause but I really like this civ. I find them to be powerful and versatile. They're one of the few civs that can get a lot of benefit from wars without ever taking a city which is a major bonus with the way warmongering works now. Their uniques, UA and start bias all work really well together.
Inca - 14 To be honest I've always found terrace farms to be almost as situational as polders. Mines are pretty important so I really find them to be a better choice than terrace farms on hills unless the hill happens to border 2 or more mountains. The savings on road maintenance is nice but there are other UAs that have a larger economical impact once you get to the midgame, Portugal, Germany and Venice just to name a few. I hate the UU, the retreating hurts as often as it helps and its weak combat power is really noticeable. The movement is about the best thing they have but even that can be situational.
Korea - 20
Maya - 18
Poland - 25

 

[cpm4001]

Arabia -5
Aztec - 5
Inca - 11
Korea - 20
Maya - 18
Poland - 25

Mine and VicRatlHead's votes went in at the same time. Correct numbers above.

 

[Derpy Hooves]

Desert is garbage start? You almost always end up near Floodplains and/or Oases and have a good shot at Desert Folklore and Petra. Plus their UU and UB are great, and allow you to play peacefully or warmongery.

Oasis and floodplains are nice, but non hill desert tiles are still a waste of time, and if you've got Morroco or Egypt in your game your chances of getting DF or Petra drastically decrease, not to mention that the only production tiles in deserts are the hills, if you don't have a decent amount of those, you'll have a majorly production starved city. And waiting for the Petra to make your desert not garbage is a long time AKA a lot of missed population and production.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Arabia -2
Aztec - 6
Inca - 11
Korea - 20
Maya - 18
Poland - 25

Arabs, of what is left they are the worst for me. Desert start can be pretty bad if you don't get petra/df. They are a great civ, but the worst of these.

Aztecs, really good fun to play. I hope they make the top 5.

 

[ehecatzin]

Arabia -0
Aztec - 7
Inca - 11
Korea - 20
Maya - 18
Poland - 25

I too want to see the Aztecs make it to top 5, considering the rest of the civs I think they could be next anyway.

The start bias keeps coming up, both desert and jungle have pros and cons, if Arabia gets Petra/DF they can be a monster, however if they dont, it can hurt them. The Aztecs have to deal with diminished hammers in some starts (same as Arabia), however I think they are less dependant on wonders and Pantheon to really shine, after all you are aiming to go tall and the UB provides that, the jungles synergises nicely with the Jaguar and are really useul later in game, and they too can get a really useful terrain Pantheon: Sacred path.

tldr: Both civs can suffer from potential starts with little hamers, that can be turned to be really good with terrain pantheons, however the Aztecs are less hampered by it and can go on they very particular playstyle regarless.

 

[Navelgazer]

Man, I'm really surprised to see Arabia miss the cut for the Top Five. They were my bet to take the #1 spot, honestly (though I wasn't going to put them there. They're extremely powerful, but I just don't enjoy playing as them - kind of a theme for me in these elimination battles.)