Oxfordless Hatty

[iggymnrr]

As requested, I've gotten a save ready with the objective of getting to space as quickly as possible. The game will be played "live" along semi-HoF lines. Readers are invited to shadow and may get to space any way they please. Please post any progress in spoilers. I will, however, try to get to space using state property and without Oxford or universities mainly because I wish to get a measure on how useful or useless Oxford is in a state property game. Banks are an absolute no-no in this effort and markets are likely a no-no. Grocers will be the main money building. If I have overlooked any important details starting this thread, let me know.

The leader:

Spoiler :

The settings:

Spoiler :

Noble level was chosen because it is in the middle of the spectrum and to maximize the fun element. Settings are all good for HoF purposes except "Time" victory has been disabled to invalidate the game for submission. No point creating headaches for someone else. The Buffy mod 3.19.003 is used and is availble here for people wanting to shadow.

AI leaders are known in advance in HoF games and for this game they are: Isabella, Gandhi, Joao, Mansa Musa, Victoria, Napoleon, and Lincoln. The chosen map is Great Plains. For those who have not played this map before, a short description is in order. The western third is where gold, silver and aluminum can be found. The middle third is cow country where gems (usually brown/desert) and wine can be found. The eastern third is where fur and deer is located as well as a fair amount of food. Marble is usually in the east and stone in the middle but not always. Lastly, there is a patch of sea at the bottom easterly side of the map. It can be assumed the start will be in the eastern section so if a person desires aluminum for the spaceship...

I don't quite know a good target date to achieve a space victory with the conditions mentioned. So I'm am going to guess at 1600 AD. My personal goal is 1550 AD.

Big hint to anyone wishing to shadow: teching AH right away will not go unrewarded. I've already played to turn 11 and will officially start the game at that point soon. Being this is my first attempt with a new challenge, I full well expect to crash and burn. Maybe. A lot of HoF games get abandonded when the objective can no longer be reached. I will play this game out to the end however.

The start:

Spoiler :

The starting save: (Remember to use the Buffy mod mentioned.)

 

[vranasm]

great!

Are you willing to lay out some strategy you want to follow in before?
I am not sure if going for some wonders is better then to getting as much capitals as possible as soon as possible.

The no barbs option makes rex a lot easier.

I suppose you will run hammer economy without cottages?

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

great!

Are you willing to lay out some strategy you want to follow in before?
I am not sure if going for some wonders is better then to getting as much capitals as possible as soon as possible.

The no barbs option makes rex a lot easier.

I suppose you will run hammer economy without cottages?

Not completely. Hammer economies need 2-3 super commerce cities too.

I will be starting this soon, have to finish Lonely Ramgang first.

Iggy what will be your early game plan?

 

[CaF]

Finally I can watch some real space time. I can usually finish space before someone gets culture or domination, but I never launch pre 1850?! I suck.

 

[lymond]

I'm having more fun going for a circa 1000BC conquest victory

 

[Amao]

This is great! 1550 means launch at 1450, barely passing the 200 turn mark, which mean you have to reach 2k or so bpt way earlier. Things I'd be interested are: how broke are you going to be for the sake of initial expansion? how are you going to recover from it? when the bpt reaching some critical mark such as 100/200/500/1000. Final tech path is actually more trivial but still like to see how many cities are you going to dedicated for the final production. Other things like, GP generation, GA managements, Wonder building are also worth watching.

 

[Kesshi]

The start:

Spoiler :

I would suggest moving your warrior to the northeast, or the southeast.

You have two food in your current BFC, but little production. If you can snag one food and some production I would go with that instead, possibly saving the second food for another city. Then again this is noble... Two food + one Flood Plains + early slavery can mean city spamming galore. Especially with Hatty, since you can hop in and out of slavery.

*just checked* Oh, you have random events turned off. Hmm, that makes spiritual a little less powerful, but that's okay.

Also you have a fair amount of forest, and some open fields in your starting positions BFC. This means there is a very very high chance of you having metal in one, or more, of those open field BFC squares. I would reccomend against settling in one of the unforested spots in your starting position's BFC. Also, rushing bronze working will almost guarantee you copper. Since it's noble, if you don't have copper, head straight for iron working. I'm pretty sure you have one of the two (or horses) in that starting city plot.

If you do settle in place, research animal husbandry first, build a worker first, and find some horses, and settler spam, then go conquer a neighbour!

 

[Amao]

@Kesshi

I think this is a HoF demo. Basically, player takes lots of time to find the map that best suits his preset strategy instead of playing the map. The initial thought was discussed here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=411084

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I am sure oxfordless Ashoka beats your Egyptian queen every normal speed day (cheap factory, one worker turn gained on each forest/jungle, and chariots are also good against warriors )

 

[babybluepants]

If you're trying to measure the usefulness of Oxford, why the ban on gold multipliers? Shouldn't everything else be equal?

 

[shyuhe]

I'm thinking of running a parallel game using Oxford. It'd be interesting to compare results, although I'll admit I'm not very good at early space victories.

 

[iggymnrr]

Tactical necessity mandated playing out a save to the discovery of AH to ensure a favorable start. To this end, a useful HoF tool, mapfinder was used and keyed on pigs. A reason must exist to tech AH. Cows are also possible but that would be too many maps. The known world at turn 11:

Spoiler :

The capitol

The warrior

I settled in place and discovered the great food start. The city governor was left on since it will speed up the first worker using the deer. The warrior went south and discovered Mansa while Nappy found me from somewhere north. Rats! It entirely possible to "one shot" an AI at this level with a single chariot gaining both a 2nd city and worker by ~turn 32. But Nappy is the only hunting civ in the game and will have gotten to archery and have an archer out by then. Its a little troubling not seeing any food or a calender resource south yet. But the sea coast is not that far and there may yet be sugar lurking down there with some seafood.

As to where the AIs are: a 2nd one may be somewhere north and perhaps one lurking south east. At the moment I leaning towards using the warrior to backtrack to the sea and scout back towards Mansa.

Are you willing to lay out some strategy you want to follow in before?
I am not sure if going for some wonders is better then to getting as much capitals as possible as soon as possible.

If space can't be achieved by the target date, its a loss! Strategically, I think I want as much of the green real estate as possible with warring aimed towards this as well as towards the aluminum side of the map.

I'm thinking of running a parallel game using Oxford. It'd be interesting to compare results, although I'll admit I'm not very good at early space victories.

Great. Its been awhile for me using creative for space. I will be rusty.

If you're trying to measure the usefulness of Oxford, why the ban on gold multipliers? Shouldn't everything else be equal?

I never seem to have time building banks in a state property space game. Having time to do so feels like the game is going too slow.

1550 means launch at 1450

I believe the turn count changes at 1500 AD to 5 years per turn.

The game starts here. I feel the need to get to bio/SP as soon as possible. But what to do on the way? How soon to writing for the OB scouting ability and cheap libraries? An oracle slingshot to CS is possible but where's the marble? Its often in the green district. Does Nappy have it? For now, hunting/mining/BW seems to be a viable choice.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

What an unreal start! It looks like rushing Mansa right off the bad will be better than settling a second city.

 

[iggymnrr]

The game has been continued taking things 1 step at a time. The second city has been founded. Research went hunting->mining->writing

Spoiler :

Second City

Worker Micro

Pretty good second city. Currently it has borrowed pigs from the capitol and a farm will finish on the turn it grows. Horses next. The capitol was grown all the way to pop 6, using a library, when I checked the status of what a worker whip does. The worker in the capitol is a 2-pop whip in 2 turns with BW 3 turns out. That has to be managed to time the whip with slavery.

I'd show pics of the AIs but I'm just getting into scouting position with nothing stellar to show. Nappy is right on top of me and Issy is close to the second city. Issy has no religion yet.

 

[iggymnrr]

The next update will come tomorrow. Its now 975 BC and the economy is in flames. Damages are being assessed.

 

[lymond]

Why build settlers? The AIs have been nice enough to build cities for you

 

[iggymnrr]

Why build settlers? The AIs have been nice enough to build cities for you

I want more cities?

Marble was discovered and a decision was made to start burning bridges and to keep burning them until I was good and broke. A plan was conceived to beeline oracle->CS. That wonder was going to be built on the marble site. Both existing workers were sent to the marble site in advance of the settler. More workers were built to replace them and war chariots queued up.

Spoiler :

Wars: Spain and France. War chariots were overbuilt and under died. 12 were built and none died against 5 warriors, 4 archers and a scout. Even a hill city with 2 archers didn't stop them.

Spoiler :

Spain: 4 warriors killed, 1 worker captured


France: 1 scout, 1 warrior and 4 archers killed with 2 workers captured

In the year 975 BC the oracle finished and CoL and CS came in. Hatty finally has a religion! Thebes got an academy too. But the empire is near bankruptcy. A look at the empire:

Spoiler :

Northern Empire: pretty nice


Southern Empire: a dog traipsed through, dropped a present and named it Barcelona

Bridges have been burned rather well. War time choas distracted my will to micro. Order is being restored. Both Thebes and Memphis will grow a notch before switching production. Memphis is using stonehenge for a wee bit of failure gold. I'm that desperate. The rest of the builds may or may not be real. I defaulted to some courthouses to get an overview of things. Things will change before continuing. With an army all dressed up and nowhere to go, I'm rather inclined to dig the financial hole deeper with another war, perhaps using caste to run some merchants. The intended target:

Spoiler :

Victoria: Cottages, iron (mine that is not copper,) stone and gems nearby.

Why more war? I seem to have put myself in jeopardy. The army can't sit around doing nothing. No place to go but forward. Tech path will be pottery->currency. Screw happiness. Will I live or die?

 

[vranasm]

about my "shadow"

Spoiler :

I think I did Oracle->CS at T95. Did takeout spain too. Didn't take out france though.

I have I think something like 8 cities at 500BC anyway, a lot of production. cottaged capital at size 11 with happy cap at 13.

I did ah->hunting->mining->bw->writing->alpha and backfilled pottery etc. through writing.
Right now I am not sure if I am still building HG in capital or I missed it .

I think I will not put any cottages except for capital and just run production. I am still building wealth but will probably switch to forges with all that production.
I am thinking about going to lib not through edu but through guilds and spam some workshops in the brown to west.

I should take out france, but not sure with what unit.

 

[iggymnrr]

Played a few more turns before calling it a night. For now, let's say the economy is a healthy 10% at 425 BC with a few more cities.

 

[Kesshi]

Why more war? I seem to have put myself in jeopardy. The army can't sit around doing nothing. No place to go but forward. Tech path will be pottery->currency. Screw happiness. Will I live or die?

Many people are unwilling to delete their units, even if it's necessary to save their empire. Hang out in the financial screen more. Learn how much your army is costing you (at home, and away.) I find that if you're in a peaceful building time, and pre-courthouses, it can be useful to delete your army until your army is costing you zero gold per turn. This advice goes for anybody who wants to rush, not just for this game.

Of course it is only noble, so you probably can just rush forward and steal the next city, while working towards currency and then build wealth to recover, too.