PAE V Patch 4

[Antigenes2]

I take a different view. I see a workboat not just as something to build the fishing improvement but also (abstactly) as the fishing fleet needed to work the improvement. I know this is different to how workers work but building and maintaining a fishing fleet is more costly than putting up fences for a pasture for instance. And each improvement needs its own fleet. It makes more sense to me to leave things as they are. There are not that many fishing improvements in any case. Just my opinion.

 

[pie_at]

ok. hm... as compromise: 4 gold (instead of 8 or 0)?

 

[Antigenes2]

A few very early observations on 4.12, playing on M5000BC 18Civs+Barbs and L5000BC 18 Civs+Barbs, Noble, Epic:

Development seems considerably slower than on patch 3, especially the time it takes to build things. At the same time, barbarians are more passive. After one brief wave of attacks (for those civs that get them, like Gauls, Iberians and Carthaginians) the barbarians no longer attack. On patch 3 there were sustained attacks which actually threatened the player. I know there was at least one complaint on here that the barbarians were too aggressive but that's how I personally prefer them. Anyway, the increased time building things plus more passive barbarians means that on these maps at least for the first 2500 years there isn't much to do beyond clicking the end turn button. It doesn't feel as well paced during this early stage as patch 3.

Forest can grow on swampland. Just in case it's not intended.

100 points for your first general seems a lot.

Celtiberian horseman can't now be built by the Iberians according to the pedia, Is that correct/intended?

Promotions seem to come very fast. I had a warrior with level 5 City Defender and level 4 Guerilla after just a few fights. And I was able to give another warrior level 4 City Raider even though it had never raided any cities. Maybe the speed the promotions came was just luck.

That's all for now. Will keep playing.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Playing on Noble I have only once had a treasury above 120 and that was when I built the Silk Road. Also I have rarely been able to build a unit that can hold its own against two animal attacks in the same turn. Only once have I managed to get a unit to the third promotion.

I take a different view. I see a workboat not just as something to build the fishing improvement but also (abstactly) as the fishing fleet needed to work the improvement. I know this is different to how workers work but building and maintaining a fishing fleet is more costly than putting up fences for a pasture for instance. And each improvement needs its own fleet. It makes more sense to me to leave things as they are. There are not that many fishing improvements in any case. Just my opinion.

While I agree that the workboat becomes the fishing fleet, I disagree that fences don't have to be maintained and crops tended. I make the assumption that the maintenance cost comes from the working of the plot and is deducted from the yield.

 

[Antigenes2]

Playing on Noble I have only once had a treasury above 120 and that was when I built the Silk Road. Also I have rarely been able to build a unit that can hold its own against two animal attacks in the same turn. Only once have I managed to get a unit to the third promotion.


While I agree that the workboat becomes the fishing fleet, I disagree that fences don't have to be maintained and crops tended. I make the assumption that the maintenance cost comes from the working of the plot and is deducted from the yield.

It depends on the scenario and the civ. On the Barbs scenarios, you can make money fairly rapidly by conquering barbarian cities. Also on those maps, some civs get - initially anyway - plenty of barbarian attacks which can produce promotions quickly, as I have pointed out. If you are desperate for money, you always have the last resort of building and selling units once you have a mercenary post. As for animal attacks, they are dangerous until you get spear warriors. Stick them on a wooded hill and they will probably survive two sucessive attacks.

I agree that there would be ongoing maintenance costs with land improvements, but not to the same extent as fishing fleets. Anyway, it's just an opinion and Pie has to make the decision .

 

[pie_at]

A few very early observations on 4.12, playing on M5000BC 18Civs+Barbs and L5000BC 18 Civs+Barbs, Noble, Epic:

Development seems considerably slower than on patch 3, especially the time it takes to build things. At the same time, barbarians are more passive. After one brief wave of attacks (for those civs that get them, like Gauls, Iberians and Carthaginians) the barbarians no longer attack. On patch 3 there were sustained attacks which actually threatened the player. I know there was at least one complaint on here that the barbarians were too aggressive but that's how I personally prefer them. Anyway, the increased time building things plus more passive barbarians means that on these maps at least for the first 2500 years there isn't much to do beyond clicking the end turn button. It doesn't feel as well paced during this early stage as patch 3.

Ok, I try to change something with the Barbs. so that they get more dangerous again. perhaps it was a bad setting in spawning new units (No AI type instead of AI type attack)

Do you mean builds from workers or buildings in cities?

Forest can grow on swampland. Just in case it's not intended.

Intended. It's ok. I like swampy forests. even in dense forests

100 points for your first general seems a lot.

Ok, I set it to 80.

Celtiberian horseman can't now be built by the Iberians according to the pedia, Is that correct/intended?

THX! this was a fault in the xml settings. fixed.

Promotions seem to come very fast. I had a warrior with level 5 City Defender and level 4 Guerilla after just a few fights. And I was able to give another warrior level 4 City Raider even though it had never raided any cities. Maybe the speed the promotions came was just luck.

For me too. I'll change something.

It depends on the scenario and the civ. On the Barbs scenarios, you can make money fairly rapidly by conquering barbarian cities. Also on those maps, some civs get - initially anyway - plenty of barbarian attacks which can produce promotions quickly, as I have pointed out. If you are desperate for money, you always have the last resort of building and selling units once you have a mercenary post. As for animal attacks, they are dangerous until you get spear warriors. Stick them on a wooded hill and they will probably survive two sucessive attacks.

I agree that there would be ongoing maintenance costs with land improvements, but not to the same extent as fishing fleets. Anyway, it's just an opinion and Pie has to make the decision .

Ok, to satisfy the maximum of players, I set it to 5 gold. easier to calculate, and similar to all other improvement costs. not too cheap but also not too expensive. why not use this feature when it's a xml feature of civ itself. And I do not calculate this with the bonus it gives, because fishing boats on fish gives only more food. no commerce. and 1 gold per turn would be heavy. so it's better to spend the money only once.
I now changed the outpost costs from 0 to 25 so that everything needs money. It's also realistic because of the outpost itself and losing the worker for the working people there.

 

[pie_at]

PAE V Patch 4.13

(see first post)

Again with bugfixes and more.

 

[Maciuk]

Anybody having trouble with the 4th patch (any version) upgrade on Mac OS X Yosemite? All my previous versions of PAE V work nicely, but this one does not load. The error that comes up on loading the mod is 'Fatal error Failed initializing Python". I have dowloaded the patch file a few times, upgraded the PAE V a few times but to no avail. Any ideas?

 

[pie_at]

So you installed PAE V and afterwards patch 4.13 (only)?
you don't need to install patch 3 before.

 

[Maciuk]

yes, I installed patch 4.13 directly after PAE V, but I also tried PAE V>patch 3>patch 4.13 and the Python error appears in both cases. When I uninstall everything and reinstall up to patch 3 it is all working well. Something is happening during the installation of patch 4.13 that leads to this error. Help!!!!

 

[pie_at]

I will post this in the german forum, perhaps anybody knows how to do. I have no mac so I can't test it by myself.

 

[Ramkhamhaeng]

I will post this in the german forum, perhaps anybody knows how to do. I have no mac so I can't test it by myself.

Could it be an line ending issue? Normally, files in Civ4 uses \r\n as line separator (Windows style). The parser in the windows binary is robust enough for proper handle of files with '\n', but I does not know how the Mac version reacts on this file format.

Unfortunately, I had no time to check the fileformats at the moment.

 

[pie_at]

This is difficult to test for him, I think, because you'll need an editor which is able to format line breaks.
In Notepad++ it is in the bottom panel on the right, shown "Dos\Windows" -> right click -> convert to MAC

I wrote him (per pm) about your hint with the case sensitive letters: Files that have the same name but different letters (lower/upper case) are not replaced with the older files. If there are doubled files in a folder, he should delete the older ones. I get no answer yet, but this was also a very good hint from you, Ramk! Thx!

 

[Antigenes2]

Do you mean builds from workers or buildings in cities?

Sorry for the late reply, I've been away.

I meant building things in cities seems slower. On the scenarios I've tried (just the barbs scenarios so far) my development was often 500 years behind what it was on the previous patch using the same path, though I expect that will be reduced once I've found the new optimal path.

But I'm just downloading the new version, so can get playing again.

 

[Antigenes2]

Playing the Eastern Mediterranean scenario...

Two points:

1. I love the new resource cultivation system

2. On this scenario particularly, with patch 3 Sea Peoples were very aggressive and numerous. In the game I just played, I didn't get a single attack past 800BC. Some of their ships approached my coast (playing the Minoans) but didn't land any units. Looking on Worldbuilder every few turms, it looked like the majority of ships remained at their spawn points and I didn't see any units on land anywhere (may just have missed them as they were killed off). But I also noticed that the ships and units were set as National Units with limits set at 3 for the axemen and spearmen and 4 for the ships. Would that have stopped them spawning or landing units?

 

[pie_at]

Sorry for the late reply, I've been away.

I meant building things in cities seems slower. On the scenarios I've tried (just the barbs scenarios so far) my development was often 500 years behind what it was on the previous patch using the same path, though I expect that will be reduced once I've found the new optimal path.

-) Hm, I changed some of the building producion costs, because I changed the production bonus of buildings (forges, a new watermill) to 25% each (instead of 10 or 20% before).
-) And you should use more slaves for city production
-) ah and I changed the mine on empty hills stuff. no mine on empty hills anymore. you must build quarries instead. quarries can plop ores by the time, which must be exploit by mines then.

Playing the Eastern Mediterranean scenario...

Two points:

1. I love the new resource cultivation system

2. On this scenario particularly, with patch 3 Sea Peoples were very aggressive and numerous. In the game I just played, I didn't get a single attack past 800BC. Some of their ships approached my coast (playing the Minoans) but didn't land any units. Looking on Worldbuilder every few turms, it looked like the majority of ships remained at their spawn points and I didn't see any units on land anywhere (may just have missed them as they were killed off). But I also noticed that the ships and units were set as National Units with limits set at 3 for the axemen and spearmen and 4 for the ships. Would that have stopped them spawning or landing units?

1. thx. it's going better in the next patch, because you will see the amount and limits in your domestic advisor too.

2. yes, this was a wrong setting of new spawning units. I will fix that.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I believe you are using the word "taxes" incorrectly, as do most mods. Taxes are what I get each turn from buildings, trade and plot yields. I then get to spend them on Science, Espionage, Culture and the Treasury/Maintenance as I see fit.

The only way I can reduce taxes is by not working plots or getting rid of money making buildings.

My current solution to "Taxes are too high" is to get rid of all my troops and declare war on my neighbours. Let them fix the problem as I can't.

 

[pie_at]

Yes, I know. But it's a good element to stop the exploit to switch from 0% to 100% (the AI doesn't do that thing) and it's meant to say, that people dislike the fact that most of the money goes into the state's treasury and not into research or culture.
I believe, this type of high taxes was in a former civilization game, wasn't it? I just bring back this element.

You certainly can go over 50% gold income when your cities are happy. for each additional happy face in a city, you can increase your gold income by 5%. So with two extra happy faces in a city you can use 60% of your taxes for gold income without any troubles.

Besides, it makes playing more interesting.

 

[Hornakhtyotef]

Hello, Pierre.

how does the AI free combat promo line work?
I've observed first built units for AI get many combat promos for free.
I did not find the python section about that feature.

Certainly, it makes attacking the AI early far more scary when facing elite archers for instance.

 

[pie_at]

Hi,
for new units built in cities:
-) leader type
-) military academy
-) training centers
-) regional city plots (chance), city status (pop)
-) buildings with XP bonus: celtic temple, monuments,...
-) settled slaves as gladiators/exhibition fighters (specialists)