PAE VI

[pie_at]

Yes exactly!
With that grain wagon you can spread your resources everywhere... and even remove existing ones to replace them. That also works in hostile territories... so you actually can steal resources

What? No... I hope not. You can buy the goods from foreign cities (can you?), but you can't take them from their territory. I will have a look... that would be an exploit for humans.

What I know is: you can buy the goods with a merchant from another civ and sell the goods in your city. it is then 3 turns available. So your (food) wagon buys/collects these goods then and can distribute them in your territory.

 

[brettschmitt]

That is very devious sir and I will use it in my future games! How did you even figure that out!?

This was only a guess
I was hoping that it is possible... but as Pie said, it seems to be a dream

 

[pie_at]

ok, just had a look into my code. you can't steal enemy's cultivation goods. you can only take away and distribute goods in your own cultural borders. for vassal territories it is forbidden too.

 

[Antigenes2]

Egyptian ranks - I have a Nomarch where two lines of text overlap. Maybe this is because of my smallish monitor.



Also, with a Nomarch starting with rank 6, it's very easy to spam them and quickly get them to a high-rank Pharaoh's Guard. The example here is on rank 9 with just 21 points. Because they are a governor as well as a strong fighting unit it's a bit of an exploit for the HI. Maybe a Nomarch shouldn't be allowed to be promoted.

 

[pie_at]

Rank view: thx, yes I already know and I've changed that

Nomarch: hm, I don't think it's an exploit because the AI automatically upgrades the nomarch to a pharao guard when possible.
And it's not that easy because
A) you can only build two nomarchs
B) you need a war to grade them up.

perhaps, I change the promo chance when fighting against barbarians? but, not only the egypts have such a strong unit that begins with a higher rank. other nations have similar high rank units too.

 

[Antigenes2]

Rank view: thx, yes I already know and I've changed that

Nomarch: hm, I don't think it's an exploit because the AI automatically upgrades the nomarch to a pharao guard when possible.
And it's not that easy because
A) you can only build two nomarchs
B) you need a war to grade them up.

perhaps, I change the promo chance when fighting against barbarians? but, not only the egypts have such a strong unit that begins with a higher rank. other nations have similar high rank units too.

Well, OK, but rank chance is 50% with Egyptians. So, as a HI, I build a Nomarch, send it to the front, use it as much as possible in battles so it quickly gets the Pharaoh's Guard promo, build a Nomarch, send it to the front... Soon I have an army of high-rank Pharaoh's Guards. Even if it's not an exploit I think you can end up with too many chiefs and not enough indians. Also, should a governor unit be promoted to a soldier unit, even an elite one? I like the new ranking system very much, but am a little concerned that over time you will end up with all the same units. Maybe there should be a limit on promoted units, so for example in the case of the Egyptians, you can only have 1 Tjati, 2 Nomarch, 5 Pharaoh's Guards. But I still wouldn't promote Nomarch -> Pharaoh's Guard.

Anyway, just something to mull over. The ranking system would seem to have almost limitless possibilities for fine-tuning .

 

[pie_at]

hm.. I understand... but at those times, military leaders were governors. a difficult thing to implement... of course it is a ranking thing.

fine-tuning... yes... perhaps but not now... I let it as it is and we will see, if it's to overpowered.

 

[cmakk1012]

Do the AI actually transmit the spreadable resources to themselves on their own? Because usually when I’m playing as Rome or similar on a Eurasia map I have to go all the way to Persia to pick up Grapes and War Dogs, they don’t transmit by the AI...

 

[Manarch]

@antigene
Yes, they tend to spawn unbothered for too long. Its easy to get ride of them as they don't attack. In terms of gameplay, it's not very interesting and in a rp-way, I feel like evily wiping out populations. Hadn't have the idea to use spies for destroying fortresses, thanks.

@PiE
It must be ok then
For 5th terrain promotion, it hasn't been offered even when attributing xp through great general, so I wanted to know if there wasn't an unseen condition.
Oh ok I searched for corpo costs... it's quite an intricate system.

I saw new texts to translate, I'll try to get my hands in it. Apropos, I noticed the added descriptions of the pae's maps. They're perfectly clear, thank you for having taken the time to coin them.
Now, are feedbacks still sought after? If so, I saw a handful of other anomalies in this otherwise very playable mod.

Animals killed by military units distribute food seemingly randomly.
Camel camps are buildable in cities adjacent to flood plains, although the pedia writes it excluded.
Regarding the audio quote for the Bank tech, I believe there isn't a quote for it yet. Why not use the BTS quote? It's "Banking establishements are more dangerous than a marching army", would it fit pae?
I have trouble with patches of attack dogs picken up by a waggon in my territory but outside of a town. I can't do anything but sell them for -1, although I planed to reimplant it near a city. Is it impossible?
On a personnal note, I'm yet to see a random map where a city can be build next to jungle and desert. Jungle tends to be cleared before Elephant husbandry is researched. So it requires long-term planning that only the player is able of doing, with a lot of luck. But it reflects well the difficulty of obtaining elephants. The conditions for an elephant camp are indeed jungle AND desert?

 

[Antigenes2]

@Manarch - because they're archers they don't attack much unless they have a big advantage. And they don't pillage. They will go after workers though which makes them quite disruptive. If they did pillage or attack more I think they would destroy many civs. I think it's a very interesting feature but may need tweaking. Time will tell. So far I've seen different civ-building patterns from earlier versions of the game which I think is down to this feature.

 

[mikmac]

@brettschmitt: Im sorry to say I shall have to put your map on hiatus a while
@emp/mar between turn times are crazy, 4 mins around turn 400! I think my PC is overheating! I tried it @no/ma but turn times hit a minute and a half @ turn 350. My PC is pretty old, tho.
I’m actually thinking of buying a new PC just to play this map because it is a beautiful work of art.
For now I shall try the XL 40 civs map, tho.

 

[brettschmitt]

Hi mikmac well I'm glad you liked the map but sad on the other hand that it's too huge...saw that coming anyway.

But a solution is in sight!
I'm working on a smaller version of the map atm (130x70 instead of the actual 170x90)

[edit]
I think the 40 civs Map is a bit broken at the moment. There are swamps all over the place. Have a look at the world builder...
Pie will fix that for the next version

 

[pie_at]

I saw new texts to translate, I'll try to get my hands in it. Apropos, I noticed the added descriptions of the pae's maps.

Yes, and please have a look to all leaders, I marked it as changed texts in French, Italian and Spanish.
Coming from a user's wish: to add the CIVname into the leadername. So you will know who Atheas is fighting for. "Atheas" -> "Atheas the Scyth".

They're perfectly clear, thank you for having taken the time to coin them.

Good to know.

Now, are feedbacks still sought after? If so, I saw a handful of other anomalies in this otherwise very playable mod.

sure
Animals killed by military units distribute food seemingly randomly. -> intended. there is a min. and max. range. hunters gain more bonus.
Camel camps are buildable in cities adjacent to flood plains, although the pedia writes it excluded. -> will be fixed.
Regarding the audio quote for the Bank tech, I believe there isn't a quote for it yet. Why not use the BTS quote? It's "Banking establishements are more dangerous than a marching army", would it fit pae? -> you mean standing army. ^^ Yes, good idea! I'll do that.
I have trouble with patches of attack dogs picken up by a waggon in my territory but outside of a town. I can't do anything but sell them for -1, although I planed to reimplant it near a city. Is it impossible? -> will be fixed

On a personnal note, I'm yet to see a random map where a city can be build next to jungle and desert. Jungle tends to be cleared before Elephant husbandry is researched. So it requires long-term planning that only the player is able of doing, with a lot of luck. But it reflects well the difficulty of obtaining elephants. The conditions for an elephant camp are indeed jungle AND desert?

No it's only jungle. I will change that in the pedia.
Hm, I don't think it is a Human bonus, to know that. The AI will build a camp on jungle. this gives a good bonus in the beginning.

Ah: and PAE opens a new strategy instead of BTS. In BTS you improve your plots with the best improvement you've got for it.
In PAE you first build camps and quarries and upgrade them to farms, pastures, plantages, cottages and mines when necessary. time by time.

@Manarch - because they're archers they don't attack much unless they have a big advantage. And they don't pillage. They will go after workers though which makes them quite disruptive. If they did pillage or attack more I think they would destroy many civs. I think it's a very interesting feature but may need tweaking. Time will tell. So far I've seen different civ-building patterns from earlier versions of the game which I think is down to this feature.

ok, I will see how I can get rid of those nasty cowards.

 

[cmakk1012]

Very minor scenario tweak: I feel like the Armenians in the XL Eurasia 40 Civs and Cities scenario should be a Persian style civ instead of a Scythian style civ, and I’ve edited it in my version. The Armenians historically were culturally close to the Persians and certainly weren’t nomadic; seeing them with War Camps feels really off to me.

Of course, all of this is a stopgap until the Armenians get their rightful units and buildings of their own I kid, I kid...

 

[pie_at]

Ah! Yes, of course, you're right. I'll change that to Persian types.... or shouldn't I take the Assyrian type? With Persians you are able to create Immortals.

 

[cmakk1012]

Ah! Yes, of course, you're right. I'll change that to Persian types.... or shouldn't I take the Assyrian type? With Persians you are able to create Immortals.

Oh, yeah, maybe Assyrians would be a better fit. Your choice, both are plausible IMO.

 

[Manarch]

What's Bts? Some little-known mod? ;-)
Yes, although I have still not totally converted my strategies, I saw the progressive improvement's changes. Jungle must be gone in my games because of deforestation then. And the fact that I still play as relatively low level (monarch, emperor), so the elephant tech is researched quite late by the IA.

I agree it'll be simpler to associate leaders and their civs with the new names, even if it's a little bit heavier naming. I also have to interact a couple time with leaders to recognise them, but it's good immersion.
Concerning ressource's relocation, I wonder how it would interact with the trade post system. Luckily, not all ressources are movable.
Still concerning archer, thanks for the barbarian xp-limit or it would be outright misuse of mechanism.. As it is, it's not unpleasant to send my new troops to train in skirmish at the northern frontier. It maintains some pressure on this front. Only when clearing the tundras for trade posts comes the problems with the hundreds of passive archers. I don't know how to improve that though. Spawning a larger part of agressive units risk being overly hard for the player and the IA. I'm also curious about some cases, mostly on isolated islands, where the unit's split stay much more balanced over time as they've no opponents (and my early landings pioneers are, let's say annihilated). Well, I don't know how it works.

Good luck for anything you want to do in the preparation of the next release.

 

[pie_at]

Archers: yes, they are passive because they use the ranged combat.... to add some aggressive units is perhaps a good idea.
so I have to decrease the spawning of archers and add the spawn of an axeman between them.

Can you see, what UNITAI_ they have? I think with CTRL or ALT pressed and mouseover. If they have UNITAI_ATTACK then I can hardly their mood for better attacking. it's perhaps the mechanic of being able for a ranged attack. They probably prefer to attack from a distance
... those cowards

 

[Manarch]

I'ld say the barbarians would be harder to contain and their base less defended (maybe) but fewer units would be useless.
Let's see that, mm mmh, they've city defense if I'm not mistaken.

 

[pie_at]

hm, with city defense they should stay in their fortress...
I think, I've try to bugfix that and changed the UNITAI to attack if they do not stand in a fortress anymore. I will have a look.
Soon I will upload a patch for the demo, but I have to check the AI distribution of grain and livestock first.