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Passing the Torch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Rex Tyrannus, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    Always war? I think that's a bit much for a first step. Heck, I struggle at AW on noble in Civ4 (not like the old Civ3 salad days). I think a goal of winning by domination or conqeust would be nice, though.

    I'm surprise no one has mentioned Boudicea with that in mind. Default Aggressive and Charismatic traits for a well-oiled offensive machine. But if the boys are both happy with Washington, I am, too. Cheap granaries are really nice. And Charismatic is often useful, so I'm OK with it all.

    America's unique unit (UU) is the Navy SEAL, which is essentially a Marine with March (heals even when moving) and 1-2 first strikes. That might be handy for some late-game overseas conquering. Their unique building (UB) is a Mall, replacing Supermarket. This gives +20% money, which isn't huge. Also some extra happies from the buildable happiness resources, but I doubt we'll need those. Oh well, a non-great UB is fine.

    Arathorn
     
  2. justinious

    justinious Chieftain

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    I'm starting to only want someone who has this: faster building and research, strength (to survive), and starts with things that help to get to Astronomy-FAST. Why, you may ask? Why?Because I want to do this win:

    Spoiler :
    space race:banana:


    But if you want another win, maybe we could just randomize leader and go for whatever win you want! But please, let's at least not go scyco-crazy and go for killing everyone. Let's stick to other wins, okay everyone?
     
  3. arkenstone

    arkenstone Chieftain

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    always war! no way jose! but it looks like we will be Washington does anyone want SPAIN?

    anyone want to start figureing out enimies? what is Togogawa's states? i never like him you cannot do anything with him that you want except beat him up and make him a vassel and i want him because i like challengeing enimies. i guess we cannot figure out what Justinious wants anywaysince i am the challengeing kind of person for maps i would like contenets for maps. if we are going to win the world by combat then we should have Roosevelt as an enimy for 1 easy one. if we are goinig for a early blow then Bismark should be an enimy and late blow Stalin that is all for now so i guss we will ndiscuse more later!
     
  4. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    Justinious, I'm curious what getting to Astronomy fast has to do with winning by space race? Astronomy is barely an issue with space.

    We can just play a general game, controlling our continent and building our strength, and see where we go after we are sitting pretty. :)

    Let's just pick Mehmed II as an adversary and let the rest be random. We can deal with anybody pretty easily.

    Sounds like continents for maps is popular. That's good. We can go with that.

    Arathorn
     
  5. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    Lurker Comment: What about turning Vassal States off? While there are some advantages to that feature, they can also cause a lot of headaches if an opponent Civ capitulates to another at the wrong time. It also means that you can't beat an AI just by bloodying their nose. :lol:
     
  6. Rex Tyrannus

    Rex Tyrannus 280lbs of gross stupidity

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    Out from the dawn of time our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in victory, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created beneath us.

    Now we engaged in a great struggle, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great field of that struggle. We have come to dedicate this ground, as a final resting place for those wanderers who give their lives that that nation live.

    But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate...we can not consecrate...we can not hallow this ground. Those who will shoulder our burden, brave men, who will live and die, struggle here, will have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it will never forget what they will do here. It is for us the living, to pass this unfinished work to those which will fight here and so nobly advance. It is for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored lives we take increased devotion to that cause for which we all give the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that our live shall not be spent in vain—that this nation shall have a birth of glory—and that government shall not perish from the earth.







    Here is our start. This looks very good to me. We'll have some serious food surplus, which we'll have to manage well to prevent unhappiness. However, we should still discuss whether to settle in place or not.

    One thing worth remembering is that you do not start researching technologies until you settle your first city, so moving your settler can start you a turn behind the AI. Sometimes this is worth it. Sometimes it isn't. Regardless, though, we can try to scout the area a little better first. We have a warrior we can move before our settler's turn.

    Normally, I would have moved Mr. Clubby one square northwest. That would open up the most unknown tiles. However, in this case, we have a goody hut to the southeast--exact opposite direction. In the truly fortunate case that that hut gives us a tech, having it a couple of turns sooner could make a big difference this early in the game.

    So I move the warrior to the hill one south.



    And brighten up a couple of flood plains. We're in food city with this start.

    So now we have to decide: do we settle in place or is there a better location for our capital?
     
  7. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Just remember the plains hill you are on gives you an extra hammer for your city if you settle on it. For that reason, I'd stay put, plenty of food, production and cottageable tiles.
     
  8. arkenstone

    arkenstone Chieftain

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    well if we are thinking about moveing clubby move him southeast and get the goody hut and then explore northeast like you said. nice nickname i like it Rex.

    and for the settler he looks good where he is from my point of veiw arent hills good defence? if they aren't then you can get upgranes for that reson. if we want to get out of flood plains then we should try going up one hill and see what opens up.

    now that we are hear what are we going to do about teachnologies? what do we want to do first? u don't know tecs th best but what i usaly do is try to find out if there is horses around us.

    i guss we will have to think about exploreing my suggestion would be that we try building an early scout so then we can find out where are enimies are on this island.

    and justiniuos i LLLLLLLOOOOOOOVVVVVVVEEEEEEE killing empires and going syco-crazy!:wallbash::aargh::ar15::sniper::banana::spear:
     
  9. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    Decisions, decisions, decisions.

    The starting spot is definitely very solid. As mentioned, settling on a plains hill gets us that extra hammer immediately, which can be huge. One east has the same benefit, costing us a wine but gaining a floodplain. Fog-gazing shows what's probably more floodplains to the west.

    NE 1 spot is interesting. It gets us more hills for mining later, lots of floodplains and could be a fantastic capital to cottage very heavily, especially with all the rivers. We have rivers aplenty in many places, though. Downside of moving is some health issues from the floodplains.

    The site suggested by the computer is also interesting. It appears to be coastal, would have corn and sheep and floodplains, plus potentially some sea resources. But it would take cultural expansions to get the good squares and we can hopefully claim all of those later, probably by settling NE of the suggested spot (I'm guessing desert hill) and south of the sheep later. Two coastal cities longterm instead of one. So I would rule this site out.

    That leaves three spots that make sense to me.

    (A) Starting spot.
    (B) 1E on plains hill.
    (C) NE on grass where Clubby started.

    Instead of just where, I'd like to hear reasons why one spot seems better or worse than another.

    Arathorn
     
  10. Rex Tyrannus

    Rex Tyrannus 280lbs of gross stupidity

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    Settling in place is my vote.

    Whenever I don't have a clear reason to settle elsewhere, I pick where the computer started us, especially on easy difficulties. The algorithm that puts beginning settlers on the map takes resources into account, even those you can't yet see. (At least that's my understanding. If someone knows otherwise, please let me know.)

    So moving the settler might move us away from iron, horses, etc.
     
  11. justinious

    justinious Chieftain

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    Personally, I don't care where we settle as long as it has items that can get us closer to space race. By the way I just thought astronomy helped us in space race and well that's it.
     
  12. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    That's pretty much my thought. I see no highly compelling reason to move (like being one off the coast or whatnot), so let's go for in-place.
     
  13. Rex Tyrannus

    Rex Tyrannus 280lbs of gross stupidity

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    Quick update. I planned on playing the first 30 last night, only to find that my video card is dead--and the driver is discontinued.

    I'll install Civ on a different computer and play tonight. Sorry for the delay.
     
  14. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    No worries on the delay. Justinious can't play until the weekend, anyway. If you post tonight, arkenstone and I should have a chance to discuss a bit here what we think of the opening (and how it might differ from what is considered 'normal').

    BTW, for the youngsters, worker and Agriculture first. It costs a bit of growth early on but getting those bonus tiles up and irrigated early will WAY more than pay for itself. After that, I think there's a lot of room for different possibilities, but the first tech and first build feel like no-brainers to me.

    Arathorn
     
  15. Rex Tyrannus

    Rex Tyrannus 280lbs of gross stupidity

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    Video card issues persist, but the ATI gods smiled on me long enough to get in our first 30. I really need to find a long term solution fast.

    But for now, we Civ.

    As discussed, I settled in place.



    This really is a great capital city location. The two corns make it more or less a must to build a worker first. And I did.



    Now, this is an important decision because, while I'm building either a worker or a settler, our city won't grow. All food goes into the worker. But, as Arathorn pointed out, those corn will help us grow faster in the long run.

    Now, fortunately for us, America already starts with Agriculture, so we already know enough tech to farm the corn. With that in mind, I select Animal Husbandry (often abbreviated to AH by this community).



    For one reason, we have those sheep nearby, and another, I wanted to see if we have horses. Having horses close could really make a justification for an early war to *ahem* sanitize our continent.

    So, with our opening moves in play, I sent Clubby off to pick up the goody hut. (I think they're really called tribal villages, but I've only ever called them goody huts.)



    Early maps can be great. Exploration in the BC ages is huge. Unfortunately, this map pretty much only showed us the vast ocean to the east.

    While I was out scooping up huts, those civilizations that start with Mysticism did what they always do and the early religions went, as expected, early.





    No worries, with Washington, I wouldn't try for anything earlier than Judaism. And that, only if I didn't have any huge need for worker techs. This might be one of those cases. But first, we need to see where the metal is.





    (I guess I lost the screen shot of selecting bronze working next. Sorry.)

    Metal, in Civ, is huge. Early war just stinks out loud without it. You need copper or iron to build axe men. You need iron to build swordsmen. You need copper or iron to chop forests and jungles. In short, if you have no metal, you won't have the firepower to dig yourself out from an aggressively expanding civ who's right on top of you.

    As you'll soon see, though. We don't have that problem.

    Just before mining came in, though, something really cool happened. Clubby stepped on a village and a scout stuck to his shoe.



    And the scout, in turn stumbled into a village of his own.



    Now, I don't usually sing praises when a scout gets XP, but this one's pretty useful. See, the whole north-northeast is jungle. So, when in Rome...



    And speaking of XP, Clubby got a little of his own, too.



    Silly lion. Trixs are for kids.

    Anyhow, the extra movement for our scout in jungle really paid off. He was able to rove way far up north and meet two new knuckleheads.





    Notice that Saladin founded Hinduism. I think I sense a hostile takeover in our future.

    Moving on, bronze working (BW) came in, and I made the immediate switch into slavery. Now, let's talk about this. I know none of us approves of actual slavery. However, I'm fairly certain none of us approves of actual stomping on turtles, but that does keep us from taking Mario through world 3-1 with squashed shell on his 8-bit boots.

    In Civ, slavery is a very useful civic. As difficulties increase, happiness is a real problem in cities early on, since each new population increases unhappiness by one. Slavery lets you "control" population growth and turn all that extra food into hammers. With our start, that corn will fuel a lot of growth that we'll be able to "whip" into soldiers, buildings, and wonders. Win-win, unless your one of our citizens. Yay!

    With that said, and with BW showing us where the good stuff is, here's our empire.





    This looks like a really great start to me.



    * * *


    There are a couple of loose ends to wrap up. First off, near the end of my set, I finished a settler and paired him with a warrior. The two are headed off to clams, copper, and wine because that's the best I saw.



    (Keep in mind, both Sally and Mansa are in that direction and I wanted to grab this land first.)

    Also worth noting is that I ended my set one turn away from bottled goodness. Make sure not to miss it.




    Roster
    • Rex (just played)
    • Justinious (Up)
    • Arathorn (on deck)
    • Arkenstone (in the hole)
     

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  16. Whosit

    Whosit Entropic Knight

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    [Lurker Babble]: Not technically true. You simply need to know the Bronze Working technology to chop down forests, and the Iron Working technology to chop down jungles. Having those resources connected is not necessary. :)

    You've got a really nice looking piece of land to start with. Good idea to encourage the boys to settle north towards the other civilizations. Less land for them.

    By the way, did you actually name the Warrior "Clubby?" You can do so by clicking on the unit's name.

    And speaking of the Slavery civic, one thing to think about is when to use it. That is, how far into production something is. On Standard Speed, each citizen is worth 30 hammers. So if you are building something that costs 60 hammers, you would need 2 citizens to whip it (though you pay a penalty if you have not yet invested hammers into the item--it's like double cost). However, if you whip it when you have paid 55/60, the extra 25 hammers will go into the next item you are going to build. Sometimes it's a good idea to manage this "overflow." It takes some practice; I'm still learning how to master the whip!

    Make sure to keep that Settler protected! It looks like there are wild animals on the prowl. Good luck, justinious!
    [/Lurker Babble]
     
  17. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    Wow. *THREE* copper so close? And horses in our starting BFC (big fat cross -- the tiles our capital can work)? That's really nice. I'm worried we won't have any iron, but that's OK for quite some time. We are doing well on early important resources.

    Rex, you didn't mention how many turns justinious should play. I'm guessing 20, since that's fairly standard. 15/15 for the rest of round one or go straight down to 10/10? I'm happy either way.

    Very nice start. Let's keep it up.

    Arathorn
     
  18. Rex Tyrannus

    Rex Tyrannus 280lbs of gross stupidity

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    Yes. Sorry.

    Roster
    • Rex (just played 30 turns)
    • Justinious (Up for 20 turns)
    • Arathorn (on deck for 15 turns)
    • Arkenstone (in the hole for 15 turns)

    10 turns each thereafter.
     
  19. ruff_hi

    ruff_hi Live 4ever! Or die trying

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    There is always a down side :D.
     
  20. justinious

    justinious Chieftain

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    So, I ended up doing this:



    And ?????? was born.

    And, ?????? found 2 important things:



    Spoiler :
    (hut and copper.)


    In the mean time, we had some, uh, hunting.:trouble:



    Bonn appatit!

    Looks like we struck violence x2!



    IN THIS CORNER, WE HAVE COMBAT 1. IN THIS CORNER, WE HAVE WOODSMAN 1. AND IN THIS CORNER, WE HAVE CITY RAIDER 1.



    :cry:The Yankees were born!



    Maybe I'll build a wall around them, hmm?



    The hamster era is almost upon us.



    Okay.................



    Yah! Yah!



    ALL IN 1 TURN!!!!!



    ??????!!!!!!!



    Hamsters are upon us.



    RED SOX! RED SOX!



    Stonehenge AND silver?????



    Good luck, and keep exploring around Sally's territory.

    Rex (in the hole for 10 turns)
    Justinious (just played 20 turns)
    Arathorn (up for 15 turns)
    Arkenstone (on deck for 15 turns)
     

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