Patch v3.13 change list

[pigswill]

I have no doubt that alexman's intentions are good but he may have forgotten where that road leads...

On the other hand I'd rather have good intentions than total silence or professionally bland circumlocution.

 

[entwood]

Thanks very much, I do appreciate your correspondence (unlike some people here).

So, to all those who have been posting here in anger over the short wait - does it really mess up your life if Firaxis miss an Estimated Time of Arrival to polish up the patch further? Even if it takes another month, that's not very convenient, but it's only a game. Can't you let it rest if they make a mistake? Must they keep totally secret and silent just to avoid offending a few sensitive people? What is the big deal? Come on, I want to get to the bottom of this .

EDIT: OK, upon reading Mr Cynical's post, I guess your main complaint was the lack of communication? Well, I'd say that could have been better, but as alexman said - he is not posting as Firaxis, he is just posting as someone with some inside info. He isn't obliged (even though the usual etitquete might be otherwise) to give updates as a company would. He's probably wishing he didn't post, since things haven't turned out as he planned, ETAs have been missed, and he hasn't given updates (either intentionally or unintentionally) hence the surprising bursts of anger from folk here.

JamesDS, Where did Alexman or Firaxis admit or suggest they made a mistake?
There is nothing of that sort on their end. There was, one might conclude, a smug, be happy I told you anything tone involved. They "hold the cards" here, and any apologist stance is basically to appease-at-all-costs, sort of like a supercharged Monty or Shaka at your border that you know is going to wipe you out unless you give-in in some manner. You are maybe afraid they will not release the patch or delay it further to spite us? I doubt that. There is some logic and a company involved here, not 2 guys in a basement having released a game.

There might even have been a bit of gamesmanship, toying with the threadposters here for entertainment value, although I cannot discern it completely. He may have been annoyed.

We will get this patch, yes, when they decide, but don't buy a new game for 6 or more months after it comes out and peruse the boards before buying is the only thing one can do, or generally suffer through these things.

Look at the 1st page of this thread to see what is being fixed and the impact it will have on gameplay. No small thing this patch.

An Estimated Time of Arrival was not given, actually it was much more specific than that, at least twice (although slightly ambiguous) and then somebody said DEADLINE. That put words in their mouths. He was trying to clear that up, but then bailed out completely, which put a bee-in-our-bonnet again, with more ambiguity and "an attitude".

Actually, this is not a deadline, nor was there ever a deadline. We will release the patch when we are ready to do so.
and
We are happy to give you time estimates based on the current situation, but situations change. We can keep totally silent, if you prefer.

 

[lulu135]

Personally, I think a weekly update would be fine. If Alex could just commit to a one-line post each Friday with the current status I could easily wait 6 more months. It's the not knowing that kills far more than the waiting.

 

[nuwriter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLCJEYLIBQY

It is the hardest part...

 

[TopDog]

MrCynical expressed my thoughts exactly.

 

[bonafide11]

Settle down entwood, you need to have more than 10 posts to start a fight with the Lead Designer of BTS.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I stopped playing BtS almost 2 months ago when I realised that Firaxis were clearly not in any hurry to release a critically needed patch (not out of protest or because the game was unplayable, but because it just "felt" wrong to play a game I knew was broken). I found out about this patch yesterday, read through the changelog and was gobsmacked at the number of fixes going into the patch. My opinion was that the major bugs (eg. the marathon espionage bug, civilopedia link crashes, broken exlorer code, corp inflation) should get fixed more urgently than the less game-breaking problems. Yet here we are waiting stil...

Forgive my ignorance on the procedures pertaining to the release of game patches, but is it really necessary to keep fixing bugs to make one huge mega patch instead of, say, 2 or 3 smaller patches, where the important fixes are not delayed simply because the list of fixes keeps getting added to?

This is a genuine question and it's not my intention to add myself to the list of whiners on this issue. But in all fairness, the people whining generally at least have good reason. Apart from a few employees who have shown the courtesy of communicating with the online community here (eg. Blake, alexman, Jon Shafer), Firaxis have given me a very bad impression because of their lack of communication with the game's fanbase (I agree with MyCynical's analysis).

It's just lucky that BtS happens to be a very, very good game. That's the only thing keeping me patient.

 

[m4gill4]

I say it's time to quit griping and start taking bets!

Ok so lets start the pool.

everyone pick a number between one and 10 and I'll assign you days. then paypal me $10 dollars for every day you want to bet on. If the next patch is on the day you bet on, you win!

 

[azzaman333]

Actually, this is not a deadline, nor was there ever a deadline. We will release the patch when we are ready to do so.

Sorry, I incorrectly used deadline as I couldn't think of a better word or phrase at the time.

We are happy to give you time estimates based on the current situation, but situations change. We can keep totally silent, if you prefer.

But before that post, you had given zero information to the people at CFC since the post about the patch, having us rely on word of mouth from 'Poly. You might as well have been silent as far as CFC was concerned. If you kept us updated here in the first place, it would never have got to this point.

 

[Xavier Von Erck]

I see baby whiners.

They're all baby whiners but they don't know they're baby whiners.

And they're everywhere.

Moderator Action: Warned! - Trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[PericlesOfAthen]

But before that post, you had given zero information to the people at CFC since the post about the patch, having us rely on word of mouth from 'Poly. You might as well have been silent as far as CFC was concerned. If you kept us updated here in the first place, it would never have got to this point.

This is the point I was trying to make earlier. A little communication from Firaxis about the status would have satisfied a large majority of the players out there. Such little effort would have avoided upsetting many players. That said I think some of the attacks in this thread on Axeman and Firaxis are really too much. They made a great game and their support has been good overall. Just look at all the fixes they are making. Clearly they listened to players there.

 

[vodlaian]

In my opniion, I can't stand this common trend for gaming companies to release non-finished products, get people to buy it, cash in, and after they get their money and go on vacation, THEN they finish the product. Something seriously need to be done about that in general.. Since I have grown accustomed to this from various other companies, I'm not really surprised, nor am I angry at Firaxes, I just wish these companies would actually finish their games before releasing them.

With that said, this BTS situation isn't so bad, I have seen FARRRR worse.. (Need I bring up EA's Practices?)

 

[Arlborn]

I say it's time to quit griping and start taking bets!

Ok so lets start the pool.

everyone pick a number between one and 10 and I'll assign you days. then paypal me $10 dollars for every day you want to bet on. If the next patch is on the day you bet on, you win!

I want 9, my baby want 8, my wife 7, my father 6, my mother 5, my dog 4, my cat 3, my brother 2, my sister 1, and my grandmother 10!

Deal?

 

[Kronoz]

Personally, I think a weekly update would be fine. If Alex could just commit to a one-line post each Friday with the current status I could easily wait 6 more months. It's the not knowing that kills far more than the waiting.

I share this view.

 

[MarkM]

Actually, this is not a deadline, nor was there ever a deadline. We will release the patch when we are ready to do so.

We are happy to give you time estimates based on the current situation, but situations change. We can keep totally silent, if you prefer.

Thanks for the info alexman.

I've been skimming this thread for weeks looking for updates, but not posting. But let me post now just to say, I hope you don't let the "vocal minority" dissuade you from continuing to keep the "silent majority" in the loop whever you have a moment.

We appreciate it, though we may not post it multiple times a day like the vocal minority does :0

- Signed, a fellow developer who knows all about trying to estimate completion time of unit testing

 

[Wodan]

Wodan, is this really your opinion?

Yes and no. I believe we're comparing apples and oranges (in our definitions of professional). See below please.

I can't find any abuse

Are you kidding me?

and when we are ready to do so, I am sorry to say, is not professional.

I've been where Alexman is, and it's a tough situation. I absolutely believe that we have abused his good graces. I do agree that he could have been politer. (I'm not saying he should have been, but that he could have been.) However, Keeling's version doesn't work because information was lost in the translation.

I's absolutely true that, if we were face-to-face at a game convention, some of the people accosting him would have been thrown out of the con because their behavior has been so outrageous.

So if you ask me if "when we are ready to do so" is professional, in the sense of Keeling's example of a contractor sitting face to face with a client? No, I don't think it is. However, we're not face to face nor are we with a client. The question is was his response professional, being from an informal insider on the internet? Absolutely it was. In fact, it was quite restrained. He would be justified in going off. I'm glad he didn't, because that would put him in the position of getting into a flame war, something I'm positive he wouldn't want.

The main problem, as I see it, is that the naysayers continue to put Alexman in the place of officially representing Firaxis, even after his recent post where he as much as said he was not. So, how can we accuse Firaxis of anything except ignoring the online forums? Pretend for a moment he had never posted at all. What would we have? Absolutely nada.

The way I take his statement, Alexman is not portending to represent Firaxis in an official marketing capacity. All we have here is someone who works there, who used to be a customer and here on the boards and thus has some personal loyalty to us (greatly strained by now, from the tone of his last post), who has gone out of his way to give us info when and if he can.

Once we get past that, we can talk about Firaxis not designating and paying someone to post on here, and developing a consistent and progressive marketing campaign for the online community. That's a valid accusation, but I wonder if they even have a customer service or marketing department. That's all at Take2, isn't it?

The next logical question is why hasn't Take2 done it? Ultimately one of us would probably have to call Take2 marketing and ask them. Mr. Cynical's analysis is valid, if we remove Alexman from the equation (since Mr. Cynical is talking about an official company presence, and Alexman does not qualify). So, perhaps that analysis should be cleaned up and given to Take2.

Wodan

 

[Troymk1]

Actually, this is not a deadline, nor was there ever a deadline. We will release the patch when we are ready to do so.

We are happy to give you time estimates based on the current situation, but situations change. We can keep totally silent, if you prefer.

BWHAHAHAHA

Alex...you were probably pissy when you wrote this. But mate, the comic timing is excellent. You should taunt for your country. (Olympics next year too!)


Thanks for the info earlier in the thread. Some of us actually appreciate the effort of wading into the shallow end of the gene pool here.


Now...*stern look* to those of you who have trouble getting your essays in on time, taking out the trash, and those hard to remember personal hygiene moments, let me put it to you that you have little idea how hard it is to get multiple stakeholders to all get their activities done on time (and on budget). Complex software IS buggy. You should stop your child-like whining and go do something contructive, the less geeky the better!!

There, rant mode off

 

[warpstorm]

What's difference between a complaining customer and a baby whiner?

Reasonableness of their complaints. How often they post. The tone of their post.

 

[The Foo]

You mean The Foo wasn't being serious? I'm shocked and disappointed!

LIBEL, SIR! LIBEL! You'll hear from my lawyers!

 

[entwood]

Settle down entwood, you need to have more than 10 posts to start a fight with the Lead Designer of BTS.

Well, one line posts like "Woot" and "Rock On" should not count then.

So I have to wait until early next week?? But I want it now! I don't want to have another Civless weekend!

The problem for me is that I quit playing a couple weeks before the announcement of the patch because I was getting bored of the game, but after news of the patch broke, I decided I might as well wait until the patch is released to begin playing again. Now its been over a month since I've played Civ and I'm cranky and I've waited this long for the patch that I can't justify starting a new game without it.

These are two of your recent posts. Correct? I think I am very much "with you" on this, very much so, not bored at all, but not being in a position to start a new game; and trying to understand when the patch would be available and then being told to shut up or you won't be informed.

Personally, I think a weekly update would be fine. If Alex could just commit to a one-line post each Friday with the current status I could easily wait 6 more months. It's the not knowing that kills far more than the waiting.

Yes, I agree, but this approach is asking or wishing for something that has not been offered. I have been responding more to what has actually occurred. I don't think I would want to wait 6 more months for this patch though, really, no thank you on that.

Being given "inside information" is very appreciated but implies or shows that we, the concerned and interested players, are not worthy of anything official, regular, and better.

Alexman, was then compensating for that. Well OK, thank you.

Re: unofficial information, then yes, one might have to better deal with ambiguous "intelligence" but consider the source, a high-level associate at the company that might have been of better assistance to his fellow gamers (now being better aware of the unofficial aspect of it...or is it still in any way official?). Maybe there has been an unjustified, too-high expectation from this "inside information". Some of this info may have been counter-productive.

I stopped playing BtS almost 2 months ago when I realised that Firaxis were clearly not in any hurry to release a critically needed patch (not out of protest or because the game was unplayable, but because it just "felt" wrong to play a game I knew was broken).

This is a genuine question and it's not my intention to add myself to the list of whiners on this issue. But in all fairness, the people whining generally at least have good reason. Apart from a few employees who have shown the courtesy of communicating with the online community here (eg. Blake, alexman, Jon Shafer), Firaxis have given me a very bad impression because of their lack of communication with the game's fanbase (I agree with MyCynical's analysis).

It's just lucky that BtS happens to be a very, very good game. That's the only thing keeping me patient.

Agree! Absolutely.

Complex software IS buggy.

Maybe this is OK with you.


* It just occurred to me that I might add, that I have played several smaller company (dearly loved) games with fellow players years ago. The publisher and developer were struggling to the point that we even tried to rally towards a money drive (modest contribution from all volunteers) to send in in order to get a patch.

That's right, pay for a patch. This might show where I am "coming from". I said before that I want the best for the game and from the game. I want to enjoy the game and play, not really sit on the boards and "whine" as it has been characterized.

Nothing wrong with a little customer noise and perhaps having high standards. Enough noise might get some results; doubtful but possible. I'm pretty sure that I have been polite and thoughtful all along and not "abusive".

Lastly Re:, We can keep totally silent, if you prefer and We will release the patch when we are ready to do so

does imply an official position. It just does, the We part. He is speaking for more than just himself and, he is a high-level associate that may, in fact, speak for quite a few associates, and be a decision-maker on this. This I don't know however.

Then, I've been posting here since much before joining Firaxis, as a fan, so I am really one of you. Just think of my posts as inside information.

As a fan....A fan wants to know when the patch will be available. So we have a dual capacity interest here. Not a conflict of interest...both sides official and unofficial, associate and fan, can be satisfied a bit better it seems to me.