Patch v3.13 change list

[JFLNYC]

Okay, you don't want belittlement from the OP. Here's some from another poster, who claims the right to belittle you all I want.

You expect too much from a casual forum announcement. You behavior will encourage Firaxis to not make any casual announcments whatsoever. You thereby reduce reduce the overall value of these forums to people like me. You infer things from other people's words and complain when those people do not meet your inferences. These are behaviors I train my children out of. If you have a parent or other adult supervision, please have them retrain you to be more understanding of other people's positions, and also, how to be grateful for what gifts you are given without whining for more. The vocabulary addition they might offer you is the simple phrase, "Thank you."

Otherwise, I will gladly join what I perceive as the majority who deeply appreciate the updates we are given and understand when unofficial announcements do not always work out. Thanks Firaxis! Thanks a lot!

Then there are a few additional things you might want to train your children to do (or not do): (1) If you choose to communicate with others, it is your responsibility to ensure that the communication is clear and, to the extent it is not, it is your responsibility to clarify it in a prompt and gracious manner; (2) Don't seek approval for your work before you've completed your work; (3) If you solicit the opinions of others concerning your work, you must be prepared for all opinions, whether positive or negative; and (4) When you invite opinions about your work and people take the time to respond, you should be gracious enough to thank them for their time, whether you like their opinions or not.

 

[Lt_Kain]

nuwriter, it is because of guy like that we have no info and we are kept in the dark by dev teams ... The guy is a dev in Firaxis and try to send us info .. and you think he OWNs you something ?? You do whatever you want with his information or IGNORE it but dont mess with the source of intel you miserable euh .. child

 

[Öjevind Lång]

cant say im surprised.

*looks at 44 pages of abuse*

Complaints are not necessarily abuse. Complaints can be legitimate. Furthermore, the complaints are not necessarily directed at Alexman personally, since he doesn't control Firaxis; the real issue here is the general ineptitude of Firaxis when it comes to informing their customers of what is going on. When was the last time Firaxis posted any new information at the official website?

 

[Troymk1]

The problem is not in communication, it is in a lack of communication.

The first post on Sep-13 said the patch was done, but might not be released this week. The post then went on to make numerous fix promises and

The post was met with the excitement that it was designed to elicit. The problem with this was that it implied that the product would be soon forthcoming.

For the next 16 days there was more information, and the joy led to the natural feeling of disappointment and deception.

The posts that came were patronizing. "Actually, this is not a deadline, nor was there ever a deadline. We will release the patch when we are ready to do so.

We are happy to give you time estimates based on the current situation, but situations change. We can keep totally silent, if you prefer."

But you can't raise people's hopes with a list of fixes and take that tone with them when you don't deliver. One comes off as childish and irresponsible when one posts such things, and then follows up today with, "I posted here as a thank you for all your feedback, but it is not my job to keep you informed." - to make the posters who feel justifiably deceived seem ungrateful.

You could have solved the whole problem by posting on say... Sep-20 that there had been a problem with the patch, and that it would be indefinately delayed, and then thanking people for their patience.

But you didn't do that Alex, and you look really bad as a result. Stick to programming and away from PR.

If you make a promise - keep it, or explain why you can't. Don't belittle people for expecting you to deliver what you promised.

I have the day off today so I'm going to take some time out to actually argue with an idiot. A somewhat unproductive task but lets see what we can do?

1) The First post gave you information you would not normally have gotten. It was a sop to all those who had filed verifiable bug reports. No more. The lack of forthcoming information is quite natural in that Alex didn't need your consent to do his job. Rather one can imagine his amazement at the behaviour of many of the posters who's sense of entitlement was one could only say a sad indictment on their upbringing

2) One speaks in a patronizing manner when one speaks to those who act like children. Can you see where I am going with this? (And yes I am being patronizing)

3) Alex doesn't look bad. He looks disgusted, mortified, and somewhat angry that his gesture to this communtiy has turned on him so. However, you sir DO look bad. Your pompous posts have cast a taint on all of us that use this great site.

 

[MrScorpio]

I haven't previously weighed in on this, but I think both sides were wrong in this case.

For the company, they did create a legitimate expectation with their conduct. If I out of the blue tell you I am expect to mow your lawn this weekend or early next week, and then I don't and don't say anything else about it, you would have every right to be mad at me. NOT because it was my job to mow your lawn, but because of my UNSOLICITED OFFER that induced you to expect me to do it.

That said, while people have every right to be mad, you can't throw a temper tantrum every time you do not get your way. Relatively, this is a minor issue. So even if there is legitimate justification to be upset, that is not a license to flip out.

 

[yatta77]

Just to be clear, I posted here as a thank you for all your feedback, but it is not my job to keep you informed. From now on I will leave it up to our marketing department to give any information.

I respect this decisions, but... .

For me I was happy to read the change list of the next BtS patch posted here, while waiting for the patch to be ready. And happy to read that many of the things I would fix in the game were going to be fixed. Warlord 2.08 patch required some time to be released, but the result was excellent (as I alredy said, to me it is the best videogame ever); BtS needs a patch right now, and I believe the next one, when ready, will fix all the major problems and make the gameplay even better than warlord 2.08.

Sorry for my english.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

you are ungrateful imo.
and also there never has been a date/deadline stated so you havent been "deceived"

Yes, I'm sooo ungrateful. I paid good money for a game which was lots of fun but unfortunately had some very annoying bugs. I was overjoyed and very grateful indeed at the announcement that a finished patch would be published the next week. Then two weeks passed without any explanation; a short announcement about complications, an assurance that they were working on it and a "Thank you for your patience" would have sufficed to preserve the peace. Instead, what we finally get is a very ungracious reply, and then Alexman deletes the information he had posted. Someone employed at a firm really shouldn't have to belong to the marketing department to realize that this is less than optimal behaviour. The fact that some posters here then chose to grovel before Alexman and tell him how ashamed they are on behalf of the "whiners" doesn't alter that fact.

And we were given to believe that the patch would come really soon - "not this week" does imply "the week after that". Give up on the "no deadline stated" argument - it's a red herring.

Edit: Personally, I'm through posting in this thread unless it suddenly contains an announcement that the patch is ready - yessir! If that happens, I'll rah rah rah and cheer for Firaxis and send off fireworks.

 

[Duuk]

nuwriter, it is because of guy like that we have no info and we are kept in the dark by dev teams ... The guy is a dev in Firaxis and try to send us info .. and you think he OWNs you something ?? You do whatever you want with his information or IGNORE it but dont mess with the source of intel you miserable euh .. child

Actually, he does.

BTS has significant flaws out of the box. Not game breaking, but significant. Firaxis has admitted as such and is known to be working to resolve those issues, however they have chosen not to communicate with their customers.

Inasmuch as they DID choose to communicate, they then chose to be snotty about it, and then petulantly withdrew their comments when the expected praise and love also turned out to also include quite a bit of criticism.

Firaxis/Take2 are known to have significant issues with their internal processes, including things which will cause them legal difficulty. This has obviously carried over to their customer relations department, which apparently does not exist.

This isn't 1987 anymore. Customers of PC games accept different standards than existed in the past, such as games requiring at least one if not more than one patch - in effect consumers of PC games have accepted that many games are fundamentally flawed out of the box. With that acceptance however comes the need by the developers to keep those consumers "in the loop" and updated. This is often more important than the actual changes or quality of the product, as can be seen by the fanatical loyalty to companies such as Paradox (which often releases products that seem to be pre-beta ).

Firaxis seems to feel that they are above reproach and that their level of quality justifies that the peons should accept whatever they release from on high.

They have no forums, they have no customer interaction except unofficially, and those people that ARE interacting with the forum are acting like children because they're unable to accept that their poor customer relations have resulted in angry customers.

 

[nuwriter]

I have the day off today so I'm going to take some time out to actually argue with an idiot. A somewhat unproductive task but lets see what we can do?

1) The First post gave you information you would not normally have gotten. It was a sop to all those who had filed verifiable bug reports. No more. The lack of forthcoming information is quite natural in that Alex didn't need your consent to do his job. Rather one can imagine his amazement at the behaviour of many of the posters who's sense of entitlement was one could only say a sad indictment on their upbringing

2) One speaks in a patronizing manner when one speaks to those who act like children. Can you see where I am going with this? (And yes I am being patronizing)

3) Alex doesn't look bad. He looks disgusted, mortified, and somewhat angry that his gesture to this communtiy has turned on him so. However, you sir DO look bad. Your pompous posts have cast a taint on all of us that use this great site.

Hey moron, let me summarize quicker, if you promise something, you deliver, or you deal with the consequences. Nobody hit him, he didn't lose any money, he told people that something was going to be done, and it wasn't.

Maybe you don't learn that working at McDonald's - but hey you got somebody to cover the Monday shift for you. Good work loser.

Moderator Action: Warned for flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[SirManiac]

I don't know. Maybe I am different from some people.

1) I have a job
2) I have multiple games on my computer
3) I have friends in my town that i see on occasion, not just friends on the computer that live nowhere near me.
4) Love sports (Baseball playoffs, College and Pro football). sp i have plenty to watch.

I guess that means i can live my life for a few weeks waiting for a patch. I can definitely find other things to do.

Why others can't? *shrugs*

The fact Alex tried to share some info with us was great. I appreciate the list so i can expect what is to come and know they are working hard on getting it to us. Whether or not it is here sooner or later doesn't matter much to me as long as it works.

 

[nuwriter]

nuwriter, it is because of guy like that we have no info and we are kept in the dark by dev teams ... The guy is a dev in Firaxis and try to send us info .. and you think he OWNs you something ?? You do whatever you want with his information or IGNORE it but dont mess with the source of intel you miserable euh .. child

You didn't read my entire post did you, all he would have had to do would be to write, "I'm sorry, there's been a delay" and everybody would have been fine with it. But that didn't happen.

He doesn't owe anybody anything, except of course what he tells people he's going to do.

 

[Arlborn]

Alex is not payed for marketing, but for programming. He just released unofficial information for us and can't be really blamed if he didn't make somethings very clear and then got upset, as he is not paid to write something to the public and so don't need to be a pro on it.

If you want to blame somebody, blame Firaxis/Take2 as a whole, and forget a programmer who tried to give some info for us by good will, even if it was not completely clear. Just not his job

Now, that is my opinion, and I am out of here until patch arrives, 'bey'.

 

[Troymk1]

Hey moron, let me summarize quicker, if you promise something, you deliver, or you deal with the consequences. Nobody hit him, he didn't lose any money, he told people that something was going to be done, and it wasn't.

Maybe you don't learn that working at McDonald's - but hey you got somebody to cover the Monday shift for you. Good work loser.

I love it when someone proves your point for you.

You sir, are depriving a village of its idiot.



Moderator Action: Report flames rather than replying in kind.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[BSmith1068]

I think it is well past time when this thread should have been closed.

We have devolved into a useless tit for tat arguement where no one is listening to the other side - and in the process have pissed off an otherwise good resource to the forums - jeapordizing the very usefullnes of this site.

Seeing how the original intent of this post is no longer valid (change list has been removed), the only thing left is for us to complain.

The patch will be out when it is out - and no amount of complaining or explaining will change that.

The time has come to close this thread!

 

[eric_]

They removed the change list. Wow. Great work y'all.

Thanks to alexman for tossing us a bone; too bad some people bit his hand.

 

[Kael]

I don't know if we have enough information to assume Alex's motives for removing the information in the first post.

 

[Duuk]

They removed the change list. Wow. Great work y'all.

Thanks to alexman for tossing us a bone; too bad some people bit his hand.

Good idea. Blame the consumers for Firaxis' stupidity.

It's not Alexman's fault, but Firaxis deserves nothing but scorn.

I won't be buying any more of their games.

 

[eric_]

Why the edit, Kael? I guess you decided to stop making sense, eh?

 

[Adam7Eight]

I won't be buying any more of their games.

Good. Does that also mean you and the rest of your complaining comrades will leave these forums? We can only hope.

It's kind of saddening that a patch for a video game can have these effects on a person's life.

Methos, close this thread already.

 

[Kael]

Why the edit, Kael? I guess you decided to stop making sense, eh?

Just trying not to add fuel to the fire.