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Patch v3.13 change list

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by alexman, Sep 13, 2007.

?

Worth the wait?

Poll closed Nov 12, 2007.
  1. Yes

    89.9%
  2. No

    6.7%
  3. What is BTS?

    3.5%
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  1. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
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    I see myself having a ton of Blitz-Destroyers in my games now...

    Like these changes, only thing I wish had been changed was definition of a colony, (would have made it where culture could not connect to a capital=colony), but still even there a change was made in the right direction.

    Just hope this comes out Monday now...
     
  2. Grimus

    Grimus I

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
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    477
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    Alexman, I love you!

    ("Almost" as much as Boudica.)
     
  3. Gaius Octavius

    Gaius Octavius Deity

    Joined:
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    4,016
    Alexman probably programmed Boudica, Grimus, so he knows her inside-out. :p

    Any idea when this will be released (presumably next week)?
     
  4. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Deity

    Joined:
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    Location:
    the Netherlands
    Hmm, the destroyer is 30 strength, 8 moves, 200 cost. It isn't invisible to most units, it doesn't have a 50% retreat chance, it doesn't have a 50% bonus when fighting submarines. It does have a 30% interception chance of airplanes, but that's not a lot. There might be undocumented changes to balance the attack submarine versus the destroyer, but at present the destroyer is not the counter to the attack submarine anymore. The battleship, missile cruiser and stealth destroyer also don't have the statistics to be a really good cost effective counter to attack submarines.

    Maybe the destroyer now has a 50% bonus versus submarines, but it isn't documented.

    I'll join the group who would like to see (some form of) the glance screen in the Foreign Advisor. It's the only quick way to get a feeling for the relations of various civilisation towards one another.
     
  5. Shoot the Moon

    Shoot the Moon Playing World in Conflict

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    708
    Removed Glance screen?:sad: :sad: :sad: It was the easiest screen to use. I strongly disagree with that decision.

    Other than that, great patch.
     
  6. stagnate

    stagnate Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2003
    Messages:
    273
    I agree with both comments. I'm just hoping against hope that they just fixed/cleaned up the screen (it had problems in some situations).

    Given the amount of time that it takes to prep a release, it make more sense to wait ~2 months and get a solid release than do small updates over a much longer period.
     
  7. LiDDiS

    LiDDiS Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    Canada
    I doubt they would remove a useful feature... It probably means they removed the ugly and replaced it with a nicer one :[
     
  8. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    Can someone tell me what that means??
     
  9. Shoot the Moon

    Shoot the Moon Playing World in Conflict

    Joined:
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    708
    I believe it means that gunpowder and melee units can now be drafted, however they have lower priority than the "original" units you were able to draft. I believe the problem was that at a certain point in the tech tree (when SAM infantry replaces regular infantry) there was no legal unit to draft. This probably won't have much of an effect on gameplay because you almost always have an "original" draftable unit to be able to draft.
     
  10. dutchking

    dutchking Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2007
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    3,317
    That's confusing. I think they're saying what it says simply:
    Was there a bug in BTS where you:
    -couldn't draft Sam Infantry
    -build Sam Infantry?
    :crazyeye: I don't even use draft...
     
  11. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    Oh, weird. I use draft all the time, but I never had that problem occur. But I always research Assembly Line before Rocketry.
     
  12. eXcel

    eXcel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    29
    yea the glance screen is excellent, hopefully they are just referring to that grey box w/ a Plus in it, in the upper left corner that doesn't do anything (as far as i can tell?).
     
  13. marciv

    marciv Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2007
    Messages:
    124
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Midlands UK.
    Pleased to hear that the combat animations bug will be fixed, I was having to look at the result list at the top of the screen to know the outcome of a skirmish, very annoying.:cry:
     
  14. Magnus of Borg

    Magnus of Borg Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    36
    Is that the final patch?
     
  15. Bast

    Bast Protector of Cats

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
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    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Military science moved to renaissance means what exactly?

    I'm guessing that Military academies can be built much earlier but how much earlier.
     
  16. Pikkis

    Pikkis Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    You can say it's useful, but I don't think so. With my teching priorities, researching Assembly Line isn't far from researching Military Science, and +50% military unit production is effectively only +25% after you have Forge, Factory and power in the city. +3 culture it gives isn't much either when coming so late, it's less than an Artist gives. And btw, what buildings do you mean, when you say there are lots of buildings that stink? Colosseum isn't my favourite, but its UB-versions are. Supermarket gives food nowadays and Customs House is getting buff in the patch.

    I guess it means that when it earlier was Industrial tech, it's now Renaissance. It effects in quest backlimits and that Industrial start now gives it straight (without needing to research it). I don't think it's prerequisites have been changed.
     
  17. Frimlin

    Frimlin Wandering Wizard

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Messages:
    522
    Location:
    Versailles, France.
    Removed the glance tab?! :(

    Edit: Voted no because of that... picky, ok, but I can't change the vote now :D
     
  18. Hawaiian

    Hawaiian Sage

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    174
    I hope not! That glance tab is great. I use it as much as the old line diagram screen.

    Hopefully he means it's just going to look nicer, and that the buttons to organize the data will actually work now.

    Hopefully.
     
  19. peter450

    peter450 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
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    I hear what your saying, i think it's an improvement as at least 1 sub is now worth getting, but it still shows up some very odd, unit matchups/counter unit matchups

    I mean you start with destroyers that are fast, counter subs, and have good all round abilty.

    Battleships are the toughest sea going unit in terms of brute str they counter destroyers.

    The first sub has no real role (unlike in real life were they played a critical role in WW2) since it cant sink anything.

    Destroyers are then replaced with Stealth Destroyers that loose the anti sub role and so can no longer counter sub's (can't see them), and get stealth instead so they can't be counterd by missile cruisers or battlships.

    A new Attack sub appears after the first basic sub that now has the str to attack destoyers so it's counter no longer counters it since equal str, and it cant attack the later SD since it cant be seen.....

    What a mess of units frankly that either half counter, or don't counter the units there supposed to......
    And that mess is shown up in all it's glory because of the simple yet great way the naval ships of the sailing era, have been organised with a nice (an similar to the land unit combat ) system of combat an counter combat units.

    Privateers, can attack anything that moves, even in peace time, fast good site radious
    Countered by frigates, fast, good combat power
    Countered by ships of the line, Medium speed, strong combat power vs all sail ships
    Countered by Ironclad, strongest ship of the time, counters all sail ships but slow, an cannot travel across ocean

    The beauty of the age of sail is that it promotes a balanced naval force, since the weaker combat ships, frigates/privateers have either speed or highly useful abilties that make them very worth while, while the stronger combat ships that counter them although far superior str wise have slower speeds or hinderances that mean a balanced fleet is by far the best way to go.

    The modern era should be organised along similar lines of unit & counter unit since at the moment the best counter to far to many of the modern era ships is themselves.

    Something alongs the following lines, with units having specific jobs an counters.

    Destroyers counters subs + 25% bonus vs subs (destroyer no longer obsoletes either)
    Battleships counter destroyers + 25% bonus vs standard destroyer
    Standard Sub has a 100% bonus vs battleships,MC & a 50% chance to evade combat ships in a stack, and attack a transport or carrier directly, standard sub moves reduced too 3 (Idea is to make it important to send a couple of fast moving destroyers ahead of the stack to root out any standard subs lying in ambush, a la WW2 when subs lay in wait for passing convoys were they then attacked the merhant ships only)

    Stealth Destroyers, Ambush style unit, 25% bonus on the attack only, vs all surface ships (except sub's and other SD), can be detected by Attack subs & other SD
    Attack sub, str 30, 2 first strike's, counters sub's, SD, capital ships, 50% bonus vs MC/Battleship, can see other sub's, SD
    Missile Cruiser, same as now, but carry's 8 missiles, 25% bonus vs standard destroyer

    You get the idea something along those lines, with units having specific roles an counters, just like they did in the naval era before an just like all the land units have, so that it's important to have a balanced fleet with a bit of everything in it to counter what your enemy might throw up at you
     
  20. Figaro

    Figaro Tywysog

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    I still don't get the subs. Seems to me that the Attack Sub, which doesn't carry missiles, looks like a Nuclear Sub, which should. And the regular Sub, which can carry missiles, looks like an U-Boat, which shouldn't be able to carry missiles. Surely the graphics should be switched? Personally I don't see the need for two subs being available at once; it's not as if there are still U-boat type subs around now nor as if there were missile subs in WW2. It would be easier if the nuclear sub image were an upgrade of the regular sub and did the same things except also being able to carry missiles.
     
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