Patria Grande: Civilizations of the Americas

Nitéroi could also make a nice capital for the Tupi; the only city ever founded by a Tupi. Nice find TP!

About the Guaraní. The leader would most likely be Sepé Tiarayú, who led them during the war of the 7 Reducciones; perhaps not so interesting as a character, but he is considered a hero and somehow a Saint in Rio Grande. And the Capital... Maybe (although far too mythologically) we could use Ivi Maraei?

Another option is using Mburuvicha Róga; which just means "House of the Mburuvicha", is the name of the current palace of Paraguay though. And... we could always use Chaco or Misiones (I'd rather have the options in guaraní though)
 
If those cannons were like big muskets, then why not make non-range siege unit replacement for musketman like battering ram for huns?
 
Or maybe somethink between crossbows and gattling gun but siege, mobile unit that doesnt need to set up
 
Yeah... A stronger Crossbowman without range could be nice... Specially since Guaraníes never used Crossbows!
 
Hi Leugi, I see that in you "leaders heads" there is head of Tupi leader, have I missed something and Tupi is released already? ;)
 
And they are also the next to be released too hehe... There's not much left to do for them, so they'll be soon enough :D
 
I have problem since your tiwanaku patch. Every time when i play the game it shows error textures in city, on birth of great persons or civiopedia and after awhile it crashes. This problem a ling time time ago with another mod, but i deleted it.
 
Hmn.. mind sharing a screenshot of the texture issues?
 
uybassy.jpg
 
Right now i'm looking up stuff to get ideas for a city list of the Tupi

However I have a request.

I still wish that there was a good Kugikugu civilization. These guys were really awesome for a variety of reasons.

1. they built an advanced civilization deep in the amazon rainforset.
2. Unlike the "white man" they learned a way to live harmonously with the forest and be productive
3. They built roads and bridges, had walls around their cities and culivated the land
4. They were populous, maybe there was as many as 50,000 people or more!
5. Having a few Kugikugu city names won't affect any other part of the mod

The Tupi civ seems like a mix of both the peaceful farmer Kugikugu and the headhunter tupi.

I have made a city list for you. You can choose what to do with it.

Spoiler :

Iperoig
Capital of the tupi. The village where Cunhambebe lived

Tupinambá

The Tupi tribe that this civ is representing

Caeté
Amazon tribe that was hunted down after they killed and ate a bishop

Kugikugu
The capital city of a lost civilization deep in the amazon

Jericoá
Modern village of aboriginal Brazilizans, being endangered by mining practices polluting their water and the contruction of a dam that will destroy their way of life

Guaraní
Major tribe of the amazon

Yanomami
Major populous tribe in northern brazil

Iguatemi
Village of the Guarani – kaiowa people. In 2012 the Paraguian government tried to evict them. The people adamantly refused saying they were “ready to accept their extinction” and would “rather be buried on the land they live. They won a temporary victory and are still there

Teles Pires
Aboriginal Village. In 2012 there was a Brazilian raid where gunmen came and tear gassed the people, and made them lay down in the sun. They threw away any cell phones they had and destroyed evidence they the raid had happened.

Haximu
Village where an alleged massace took place in 1993. Where 16 Yanomami people were killed by gold miners.

Nova Ipixuna
Native Village where an activist was assassinated. The shooter was tried and acquitted.

Paiter
Tribe that uses future technology to monitor their territory. They use Google earth and look for suspicious logging for mining on their land. They they find any they contact Brazilian authorities and have them removed.

Xavante
This tribe was the first to have a native Brazilian become a federal representative

Gorotire
Village of the kayapo people. They made a deal for gold mining to move on their land and they would receive some money. It worked at first but later caused pollution and negative outside influences to come in.

The rest of the list is either Tupi or Guarani tribes, their villages or Kugikigu cities

Munduruku
Macushi
Kayapo
Kaxinawá
Heulugihïtï
Nokugu
Itsagahïtï
Nambikwara
Amanyé
Hi'aiti'ihi
Matsés
Potiguara
Wapishana
Sekuhai
Akagahïtï
Tehukugu
The lost city of Z


Total 35 names. That should be enough


I used these pages as reference



stay tuned next, either tonight or tomarrow, I'll come up with a spy name list!
 

While the map looks great, I don't think it accurately represents the Tamoyo Confederation. The Confederation was along the southern coast of Brazi (the most specific information I've found equates the Confederation, roughly, with the area east of São Paulo through the entire state of Rio de Janeiro; but if this map is accurate, that area seems to be maily for the Tamoyo themselves, not the whole confederation, which would extend through Espirito Santo and along the coast of Bahia, based on known members of the confederation). Regardless, itt didn't extend too far inland, and it didn't include every Tupi-Guarani group. Of course, that's my understanding of the situation. Finding English-language sources on the topic has been hard. I've mostly been relying on Portuguese sources that I can force Google to translate for me.

I'm actually considering the whole part of making the Avá (Guaraní) as a civ... I was getting some interesting ideas; mostly centered on the whole interesting and artistical interaction with Jesuits too. The whole thing of using Guarani, was because Guaraní actually means Warrior anyway.

As I'm sure you remember, I'm in favor of splitting the Tupi and the Ava up (or least making the Tupi in such a way that they don't eliminate possibility of an Ava Civ later, even if no one gets around to making one any time soon).

UI: Mission: Built by Missionaries it consumes the missionary when built. May only be built on Jungle and not adjacently to another; +3 Culture; +1 Culture after the discovery of Accoustics.

I think this steps on the toes of the Jesuit Missions you're planning for Paraguay, and I prefer it as a Paraguayan UI rather than an Ava UI.

Of course, if you could someone how make the Mission into a UI improve you can acquire through choosing a specific, new Religious Belief, that'd be awesome and probably the best way of handling it. Barring that, I say give it Paraguay and give the Ava something that wasn't thrust upon them by their colonizers.

Also... what would be a good capital for the Tupi?
Iperoig, definitely. It's Cunhambebe's town and the place were the peace treaty between the Tamoio Confederation and the Portuguese was eventually signed.

Since I'd prefer to keep this Civ as closely associated with Tamoyo Confederation as possible (rather than being a Tupi-Guarani blob -- not that I have any say in the matter, just my opinion here obviously), here's a list of potential city names from the region (roughly from Cabo Frio to Bertioga, since that's the area that was certainly part of the confederation), in no particular order:

Spoiler :
Gecay
Bertioga
Ariro
Iguaa-Mbara
Niterio
Gohayo
Urucumirim
Araruama
Saquarema
Itaipuaca
Itaborai
Majepemirim
Guapimirim
Mangaratibu
Mambuca
Tarituba
Parati
Picinguaba
Ubatuba
Boicanga
Maembipe
Ciribai


Quick research! So, yeah the Guaraní did use wooden cannons in those wars; made of Tacuarazú. They were not as effective and were not too wide though; so in fact its almost like having big muskets instead of an artillery in a way. Still... it would be fun; a non-artillery cannon replacement.

Any opinions on the UA and UI for the Avá/Guaraní?

I love the idea of using the cannons as their UU, so definitely go with that.

I like "A Land Without Evil / A Land With No Evil" as the name of their UA, but I dislike tying it to the Jesuit Missions. The whole "Land Without Evil" concept is part of the Ava resistance to colonialism. Giving them stronger resistance to Foreign Religion and Foreign Tourism and / or increased Attrition for Foreign Missionaries and Prophets would be thematically appropriate, but might be too passive for fun gameplay.

As for a UI, I recommended the Tekoá, but it may be too similar to the Maloca for the Tupi. Alternatively, you could go with the opy as a UB.

About the Guaraní. The leader would most likely be Sepé Tiarayú
Sepé Tiarayú is a great choice, given his prominence in Ava culture. My previous recommendation suggested Nheçu, with Inhacurutum as his capital. Sepé is probably a better choice, but Nheçu came with a convenient capital.
 
While the map looks great, I don't think it accurately represents the Tamoyo Confederation. The Confederation was along the southern coast of Brazi (the most specific information I've found equates the Confederation, roughly, with the area east of São Paulo through the entire state of Rio de Janeiro; but if this map is accurate, that area seems to be maily for the Tamoyo themselves, not the whole confederation, which would extend through Espirito Santo and along the coast of Bahia, based on known members of the confederation). Regardless, itt didn't extend too far inland, and it didn't include every Tupi-Guarani group. Of course, that's my understanding of the situation. Finding English-language sources on the topic has been hard. I've mostly been relying on Portuguese sources that I can force Google to translate for me.

Fair enough, so we got two options here:

map3.jpg
map2.jpg



I think this steps on the toes of the Jesuit Missions you're planning for Paraguay, and I prefer it as a Paraguayan UI rather than an Ava UI.

Of course, if you could someone how make the Mission into a UI improve you can acquire through choosing a specific, new Religious Belief, that'd be awesome and probably the best way of handling it. Barring that, I say give it Paraguay and give the Ava something that wasn't thrust upon them by their colonizers.

Of course, should I make the Misiones for the Guaraní, it'd no longer be Paraguay's. Quite interestinngly, it makes more sense for Guaraní than Paraguay, in the way that the Guaraní actually built many of the Misiones; and that the Misiones are not only in Paraguay, but rather in all the current Guaraní and Moxos territory...

Of course it could be a religious UB belief too... Though, if you take into account the Founder of the religion, Misiones could be an UI that spreads your religion every few turns... However that would be for Spain, not for Paraguay or Guaraní.

I would have to find something different enough and that works well with the other uniques for the Guaraní though; right now the Misiones makes sense and works well with the UA.

I like "A Land Without Evil / A Land With No Evil" as the name of their UA, but I dislike tying it to the Jesuit Missions. The whole "Land Without Evil" concept is part of the Ava resistance to colonialism. Giving them stronger resistance to Foreign Religion and Foreign Tourism and / or increased Attrition for Foreign Missionaries and Prophets would be thematically appropriate, but might be too passive for fun gameplay.

The Ivi Maraei is not only resistance, as it is also a concept that the Jesuits' influence transformed into some sort of search too (paralelism to Kingdom of God). So, although there was resistance, the resistance was stronger against the possibility of Portuguese domain, than Jesuits themselves.

Anyway... Suddenly acquiring Musicians and Missionaries and Prophets (sort of assimilating them in your culture; but not assimilating their culture) actually has the effect of having stronger Attrition and cultural resistance, with an active element.

The thing is... Much things about the Avá before the colonization are not known (at least not enough things to have a strong difference with the Tupi and Tupinambá)... Guaraní music, current guaraní dressing and even how we understand the Ivi Maraei is all defined with the Jesuit's arrival. So in the end; the emphasize on the mixture culture the Guaraní have could be nice, and set up a good counterpart to the Mestizaje ideas of Paraguay as a civ.

A movie called "Ivi Maraei" (which is sort of experimental/documentary") has a Guaraní man summing it up in a nice phrase "The Avá needs the Kara'i (white man) to be Avá, and the Karai' needs the Avá to be Karai'".

At any rate, I'll be doing Peru and Paraguay first, so there's time to think of other ideas.
 
Well, if we are voting, I'd go for the Tamoio Confederation map, it may show less territory, but it actually is a more accurate representation of their power.
 
Yeah I'd go with Tamoyo map myself.

Sorry i dont know how to put pictires in posts

Oh, just saw this one. Well, you can either use the attachments when posting (Use the Go Advanced button, and then search for the Manage Attachments one)

Or, you can use a site like imgur, or imageshack to upload your image and then use the url like this:
[img]http:\\url.etc[/img]
 
You could merge the two by putting the territories in different colours and adding a key (like what Firaxis did with Japan's map).
 
That's a nice idea:

map4.jpg


Just wanted to say I still need help with their Music... having real issues finding something that sounds both fitting to the game, and to the civ.
 
That's a nice idea:

map4.jpg


Just wanted to say I still need help with their Music... having real issues finding something that sounds both fitting to the game, and to the civ.

Looks great! As for the music, can you link me to anything that's associated with the civ? It doesn't have to be a paticuarly fitting piece, but I may be able to do some sort of remake of it more suited for Civ OST.
 
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