Payback From Putin?

[Berzerker]

Did Russian interference in our election occur recently or has it been ongoing? Seems to me it started during Obama's 2nd term with the Ukraine conflict... We (the USA) were promoting the conflict to further dissolve the Russian empire so do you think Putin's revenge was to go after Hillary?

You know, I'd be especially angry if the Russians were in the habit of playing these games but I'm less inclined to be mad if this was all about retaliation for our interference in Russia's neighborhood... Not that I opposed Ukraine's break from Russia, but I can at least understand why Russians would seek ways to pay us back.

 

[Ferocitus]

Did Russian interference in our election occur recently or has it been ongoing? Seems to me it started during Obama's 2nd term with the Ukraine conflict... We (the USA) were promoting the conflict to further dissolve the Russian empire so do you think Putin's revenge was to go after Hillary?

You know, I'd be especially angry if the Russians were in the habit of playing these games but I'm less inclined to be mad if this was all about retaliation for our interference in Russia's neighborhood... Not that I opposed Ukraine's break from Russia, but I can at least understand why Russians would seek ways to pay us back.

That's roughly how I see it too.
The USA gave Russia Yeltsin. Russia gave the USA Trump.
One all, going into the semi-finals!

 

[Karpius]

Interference in elections or otherwise sabotaging a sovereign government's political process is an ongoing activity among all intelligence agencies for at least a century. It really ramped up during the Cold War between east and west and tapered only marginally with the fall of the Iron Curtain - for a short time.

Today, however, the internet and social media makes the practice far more efficient, effective and affordable, but also more blatant. The hands of one side are just as dirty as the hands on the other side.

 

[rah]

Russia has taken the lead in it's ability but it only works due to the gullibility of the US population. I'd like to say trump voters but stupidity can be found everywhere.

 

[metatron]

Did Russian interference in our election occur recently or has it been ongoing? Seems to me it started during Obama's 2nd term with the Ukraine conflict... We (the USA) were promoting the conflict to further dissolve the Russian empire so do you think Putin's revenge was to go after Hillary?

You know, I'd be especially angry if the Russians were in the habit of playing these games but I'm less inclined to be mad if this was all about retaliation for our interference in Russia's neighborhood... Not that I opposed Ukraine's break from Russia, but I can at least understand why Russians would seek ways to pay us back.

The whole Ukraine business sure hasn't helped. But i think it's beyond that. It's personal on both ends. It's personal for Putin (and his associates) who thought the US wanted to send him towards a future where he'd end up hiding in a hole in the ground or get a knife up his butt by a rando mob. And it's personal on the other end because in their view Clinton embodied this attack.
Remember, Putin was on some rather shaky ground back then. He remembered her face; definitly.

 

[Karpius]

Its far, far deeper than personal. It is deeply embedded in the whole geo-political architecture. It is merely a matter of course for both sides.

 

[JollyRoger]

Putin started meddling when Palin left her porch to check on the status of Levi's Levis.

 

[metatron]

Putin started meddling when Palin left her porch to check on the status of Levi's Levis.

That's not the point though.
Putin started meddling over here the day he got into power.
The point is why he put waaay more chips on the table in your election and in the face of substantial risk.

Correction: Make that "resumed" not "started".

 

[Birdjaguar]

Putin is the actual bad guy in all of this. If I were to choose one individual to have an "accident, plane crash or fatal illness", it would be him.

 

[red_elk]

Did Russian interference in our election occur recently or has it been ongoing? Seems to me it started during Obama's 2nd term with the Ukraine conflict... We (the USA) were promoting the conflict to further dissolve the Russian empire so do you think Putin's revenge was to go after Hillary?

There is an opinion that Obama administration tried to overthrow Putin by setting up a "color revolution" in 2012. Which triggered retaliation.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/18/vladimir-putins-rage-triggered-by-president-obamas/

 

[Birdjaguar]

When people are in power to too long, they get grandiose ideas.

 

[red_elk]

Putin is the actual bad guy in all of this. If I were to choose one individual to have an "accident, plane crash or fatal illness", it would be him.

You'll need a lot of patience. Because we will re-elect him for next 6 years.

 

[Nexlev]

Russian influence campaigns aren't new, only the means have changed.

 

[Cutlass]

This isn't payback for anything. Putin is just taking advantage of an opportunity. He doesn't like the fact that Russia's relevance to the world outside Russia hasn't been lower since WWI. And since he can't solve any of Russia's internal problems, redirecting attention to outside problems is the despot's standard toolbox. A weakened US means a relatively stronger Russia. And he don't care who suffers to get that.

 

[Ryika]

Main difference between how Russia and the USA influence the world is that Russia has to act covertly to undermine America, while America can just say "Russia did X." and the rest of the world will parrot it as true.

 

[FriendlyFire]

You'll need a lot of patience. Because we will re-elect him for next 6 years.

The rest can flee to the West with their money and brains, thanks
Honestly its overblown, even more then the Fascist US connection in Ukraine, but it seems the Russians are pushing for Cold war II by testing the west most of it has been minor
Hopefully Ivan or the West dosnt do anything crazy to escalate this anymore.

 

[Moriarte]

Putin is the actual bad guy in all of this. If I were to choose one individual to have an "accident, plane crash or fatal illness", it would be him.

Only kindness matters!!!

As for the "conspiracy theory" displayed in the opening post, suggesting revenge was and is in the cards, rest assured, it is not. Although it would be comfortable to have such fitting explanation of the chain of events which led at least two governments into a state close to cold war at one point. Luckily, spying has been around for centuries, communities of people on all sides do it for living, professionally. If there is a soft spot, it gets abused, if there is a weak link in the chain - it will become uncovered and employed. Now, you can stand up and say with a straight face of a child "but they got caught, damn them", while throwing sheets of wiki paper at my face. To which I would laugh - until everyone gets together and agrees to stop spying on each other in the name of, say, sunny capitalist future - that exclamation above will be a hypocricy, implying that one side is worthy of being the one to look over the shoulder (perhaps even direct a hand, being at it), while the other side - not so much. Is being caught the required metric for issuing condemnation? And how much is this condemnation worth if the other side also does it, but evades being caught or doesn't appear to give a damn when busted? Why should I condemn spying and meddling by either side if governments all over the globe consider this the juicy thing to do? .. and even set up cool three-letter shops to make it official.

Revenge isn't the reason why. Reasons are - existence and availability of tools to influence masses on a never-seen-before scale, the will to do it within a larger framework shaped by flows of capital. So yeah, deal with it.

 

[Ferocitus]

Putin is the actual bad guy in all of this. If I were to choose one individual to have an "accident, plane crash or fatal illness", it would be him.

Yeah, yeah, he's a 10 metre tall puppet-master, striding across Russia and never
sleeping.
You would have to be extremely naive to believe that Putin personally controls
all of Russia, its internal mechanics, the myriad political and other players,
as well as the handling responses to the huge number of external pressures.
Ignoring all of the other players in the Russian political game is similar
to the mistake made by those who were fixated on Monsanto as the one great evil
in the agro-chemical sector. It gave a free pass to many other culprits, some
who are much bigger, more powerful and could buy Monsanto from their pocket
change.

 

[red_elk]

The rest can flee to the West with their money and brains, thanks

Russia is so awful place to live, that it's still 2-nd most popular immigrant destination in the world. But anyone can flee to the West, if it makes you feel better.

Yeah, yeah, he's a 10 metre tall puppet-master, striding across Russia and never
sleeping.

This is classified information. You are not supposed to say this.

 

[Ryika]

Wow, that's true. What's the reason people immigrate to Russia?

/edit: Ah I see, the rest of the Ostblock moves away from their failing countries and into Russia.