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Peaceful Deity Science Victory in 150T PERICLES & 157T Lucky ROME (VIDEO) - Strategy and Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by civtrader6, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    An amazing thing with Civilization is how many different playstyles and goals it can accommodate.
    So here's one: Peaceful deity science victory - standard size, standard speed, continents - no warmongering.
    Of course, to achieve this - under any time - and especially fast - you have to be lucky to get a map where you can expand your empire.

    UPDATE: There are now two series:
    Rome T157 - This game goes with the culture heavy focus - but, now I can appreciate that the amazing finishing time is probably due to great luck with goody huts, city states and place to expand early on. Without this - the finishing time would probably be in the T160-T170 range .

    PERICLES T150 - In this game I wasn't nearly as lucky as with Rome - getting only one (1?) goody hut and 2 city states early. I also had to struggle to expand.

    Originally I wrote: This strategy is heavily inspired with - what seems to be my understanding - of the three theaters approach put forward by Chinese players. Maybe I'm understanding things wrong and maybe it could have been better - if so - please let me know - as I'm always open to learning.
    Update: It seems that this is not the 3-theatres approach (which is an approach that allows any civ in any conditions to achieve a T170-T200 peaceful deity victory), see posts by @Boyan_Sun for more.
    This is the Globalisation approach - that is most suitable for Greece. And lucky circumstances also made it doable with Rome.

    Originally I wrote: Again, I'm not a youtuber - I'm just doing this for people who want to learn and/or see different playstyles and approaches to the game. Throughout I am discussing strategic choices, providing lots of tips and rationale for my decisions so hope you'll find the videos useful.
    Update: Rise and Fall will bring significant changes to the game mechanics - and it seems now that these changes will make deity fast science victories easier and even more fun. So stay tuned for more videos. In the mean time - these two playlists have a lot of advice and tips if you're up to learning and improving your game. Cheers.


    Personally, I found this game very fun and enjoyable.
    PERICLES VIDEOS:




    ROME PLAYLIST AT:
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi9ljIYshd9su46grXfEzK6qsVkhn3RtE




    Feel free to ask any questions or discuss the moves or many mistakes I've made.
    Best wishes, civtrader6.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  2. TheSharp

    TheSharp Chieftain

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    These videos are really good and informative. It's nice to finally have a good civ6 channel where you can learn a lot from.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  3. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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  4. FurionHuang

    FurionHuang Chieftain

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  5. wo0ter

    wo0ter Chieftain

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    Thanks for these awesome videos! Would you be able to post the seed or starting save file? It would be great if viewers can follow along.
     
  6. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

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    Small tips:
    * In the early exploration by your first warrior or scout, you may switch to the settler lens, to see if there are other cities (maybe city states, maybe major civs) around you (it is red for 3-radius tiles), where is the coastline (the color is light green)... Sometimes early exploration is not just luck; later, you can try to use these early units to block other major civs‘ settlers from founding their cities.
    * As long as the barbarian camp is not destroyed, the scout belongs to it will not catch your builders or settlers. You can even use them to chase barbarian scouts.
    * After completing political philosophy, you can get 3 free one-time policies (i.e.land surveyors, diplomatic league) actions by changing your government (put in one-time policies and use them, then change government and take them off) ,then another 3 by Monarchy, Merchant Republic and Democracy.
    Again, amazing videos! :goodjob:
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
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  7. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    Looking forward to this, been learning tons from the Aztec video and I was able to get a T204 victory yesterday on that map which is my fastest victory yet! Do you have the starting save or seed? Would love to play along with this.
     
  8. HyJinkx

    HyJinkx Chieftain

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    I have a couple questions I was hoping you could answer for me. At turn 19 your warrior is on the southern side of the river. As it it changing to turn 20 you move the warrior across the river onto a jungle hill and it shows 0/2 moves left but then you select and move the settler and click back to the warrior which now has another two moves, how do you do that? Maybe I am missing something here but I was just curious about it.

    My second question is do you know what the map is before you start video taping because on turn 20 as you find the second culture city state and move by it you say “No more city states” which I would take it to mean you have some idea that it would be the last one you are able to find first? I only find this important because of the extreme boosts you are getting to the early game which directly effects the outcome of this victory. Turn 3 you have Kumasi +2 culture, turn 9 Granada +2 boost to settlers(troops), turn 10 Muscat +4 gold, turn 12 Kabul +2 settlers(troops), turn 13 Auckland +2 production capital buildings(districts), and turn 19 Antananarivo +2 culture from exploring alone. Now turn 19 you also gain the boost to state workforce which gives you Amsterdam for another +4 gold combined with two free builders from huts, 1 on turn 17 and another on turn 23. If it is luck that you acquired these wouldn’t that play more of a role of achieving this quick of a victory moreso than the fact of building the culture districts first? I noticed that it dropped the build time of your second settler from 15 turns to 9 turns instantly(before early empire) which shows how much time it shaves off on just that. I’m not savvy enough to figure out how all of these would effect the end game but it would appear it makes a huge difference being that is always stated how an early snowball really helps. Please do think I am questioning your abilities or any such thing but I am curious what you think the end result may have been without these boosts or say even just a half of them?

    Now at turns 31/32 I noticed that used a trick you discussed in you Aztec playthrough where you were spamming from craftsman to mysticism when you noticed you forgot to start the culture districts and it appears to work. The part I have a question about is you are 1 turn from completing craftsman when you do it and then when you go back after this craftman is a 2 turns. Is that due to some sort of overflow in culture before the change or another mechanic? You didn’t finish any civic that I could see in between but yet you now an extra turn before completion. Would that possibly be larger later on down the civic tree and could it be used for an advantage or a possible disadvantage from the switch?

    I’m really enjoying the videos and was just curious so I figured it was best to inquire so I can a better understanding of how things effect the outcomes.
     
  9. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hi @HyJinkx,
    in regards to the warrior - thats a very interesting observation you made. I had to rewatch the video a few times.
    So on turn 19 I dont move the warrior just skip the turn - then I click the next turn shortcut [mapped to my mouse] and while the turn is changing I've clicked the warrior cause I planned to cross the river. At this point it indeed crosses the river and then shows two moves remaining. Then I click the shortcut for next action which takes me to the scout and keep clicking next action until next turn. The game indeed shows two moves left on the warrior but does not select the warrior on next unit actions. So it may definitely be a glitch - perhaps only graphical? Or maybe I could really have double moved the warrior and due to the timing of the click - it counted the original move as part of the previous turn. Don't know.

    As for the map - its 100% first play-through and it just turned out to be an amazing map. I think that my excitement about all the great city states and boosts is obvious in the video. I really enjoy opening goody huts and discovery- and its my favourite part of civ. Also observe that I've tried two maps before this one. First one had good production, but was otherwise meh and I was forward settled. My fourth settler would have to travel virtually fifteen or more turns just to get to a reasonable spot. So I quit. The second one was amazing except I was cornered by the AI and forward settled by Russia and Khmer - so there was virtually no room to expand.

    As for the comment on Turn Twenty - had to watch the video - it's a comment about discovering the outlines on the sea to the right - and hence, no point going there anymore - aka. no more city states, so turn left I guess.
    Yes the boosts are great.
    Now - if the boosts were not as great, and if there was less city states the victory would definitely be slower - but even with just one cultural city state I think I would be able to finish in around 165 to maximum 170 turns. This was my original plan - the map just turned out to provide an extra boost. But no matter how big these boosts are - the end effect is there - but is not that significant. For example, suppose you get 6 envoys in a scientific city state and you have ten campuses - then you get sixty science per turn - which is a sizeable increase. If you happen to slot these envoys at, say turn seventy - and keep it for the next eighty turns - it makes everything move faster - but brings you a total of 4800 science which is actually just two and a half atomic/information era technologies. Thus its good to have these boosts - they can kickstart the game but is really not enough - you have to squeeze anything you possibly can.

    For every quick victory you need luck with something. Then the next question is - can you make the most of what you got and can you adapt for other things. If there was no Kumasi - there would have to be a different focus and build order for boosting culture.
    For example, you could observe I prioritised commercial hubs to campuses. That would have definitely changed - and then I would be generating more science per turn from early on - and thus - I could afford to get globalisation later than I did. Similarly, focus toward culture would be more pronounced and I would probably put more efforts on getting the great writers faster etc.
    Similarly - you could see that I have postponed shipbuilding because there was a land bridge between the landmasses etc.
    If instead of Kumasi I had Mohenjo-daro - then I would probably spam much more cities cause I would not have to worry about housing and could settle that all water less area full of woods towards england etc.
    If stockholm was in the game approach would be even more different etc. So its all about adapting.
    So its always a question of adapting your game to take all the benefits from the situation. I talk a bit about that in the later game.

    As for the settlers - the production boost in the capital simply meant I could afford to pump a series of settlers from the capital instead to also having to use other cities. This would have been totally different if there were no military city states. In that case - in order to get as many cities out as fast as possible - I would definitely be making settlers in other cities and chopping to speed these up. This was my original plan - but the map turned things around.

    So without any boosts - if I for example didn't meet any of the city states first - I would still end up as suzerain to all of them - and probably finish at T170 max.

    As for the turn 31/32 switch - that was a serious mistake on my part. The idea was to place the three districts then research Craftsmanship. . If i finish craftsmanship first then the cost of all districts would go up by three or four production at least - which is a whole turn delay in all of the cities.
    It says one turn to complete because, I need a total of 20 culture to finish it. Im making 14ish - which means there is an overflow of at least 6 culture from the previous civic. Once I put that all into mysticism, I can now only put 14 into craftsmanship - which means six is missing so it takes two turns. This is actually very important later on for the tech tree cause it allows you to optimise the number of turns taken to reach a goal tech. That will be obvious in the last two videos.

    Hi guys, glad you like the videos. I actually forgot to save the first turn - but I'll try to extract the seed and post it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2018
  10. HyJinkx

    HyJinkx Chieftain

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    Excellent! I really appreciate you explaining some this in more detail because I was going to ask about how or what you would’ve changed if not for the initial start placement but you’ve answered most of that already. The part about the warrior I was mainly curious about because I wasn’t sure if somehow the spamming trick maybe works for troop movement the same as for culture and civics switching? It’s clear that the time in the video maintains normally but it appears the warrior move just before the end of the turn while it’s processing. I hadn’t encountered it before and thought maybe it was intentional and could be reproduced. It’s no big deal but was more of a curiosity.

    So when would you guess would start the culture districts for max effect if you had not gotten Kumasi so early? I’m trying to get a good idea of what my timing should be for finishing them using this strategy. Would you only have worried about getting them locked down and then switched back to settlers and if so then how many cities would you shoot for before finishing the culture districts? I always feel like I’m either shooting for to many or to few cities right off the bat so I’m trying to find out where to switch my focus to other things.
     
  11. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hi HyJnkx, according to my limited understanding of the 'three theaters strategy' I would have built them ASAP.
    The essence of the strategy is taking the risks to put out three cities as soon as possible. For example, you improve lux/strategic resources - then sell these and you can easily purchase the second settler - then just make the third one.

    Where I diverged is in the district placement - I went 5 x theater, 2x campus, then CHs maximisation to make the most of Kumasi. Without Kumasi - I would be striving to go for all campuses easier. So that once I reach monarchy I finish up arch.museums and universities thus significantly improving science earlier. In this case, globalisation would come later - but it would be ok cause science progression would be faster.

    So look at it like this - Kumasi is an amazing city state but the effect on the progression is as follows:
    at turn 92 i had eight to nine. trader routes each bringing SIX extra culture from Kumasi. I hit globalisation at turn 130. Lets say nine - that means I got 9x6x38 = 2052 culture from Kumasi trades.
    From turns 79 to 92 i had 4 to 6 traders - lets say 5. That brings 13x6x5= 390 extra culture.
    From turns 68 to 79 I had 3 traders - each bringing FOUR extra culture. That brings 11x3x4= 132 more.
    And lets say that before that there was another 130 as well.
    Then -> its a total of 2704. Lets increase this to make sure I'm not down-estimating. And say that all these trades have brought me 2880 culture.
    Globalisation itself is 2880 culture. Mass media -boost: research radio - is 1410. Civil Engineering 910 - boost build seven specialty districts and Conservation - boost build a neighbourhood with breathtaking appeal is 1255.
    I did not boost these three technologies - virtually because of speed of progression. My culture progress was going fast so there was no time to build neighbourhoods. Similarly, in almost all my other games I get radio in time for mass media. So, IF there was no Kumasi, progress would go slower and then there would be time for me to get these boosts. That would yield me 3575/2= 1785 culture.

    So the game would go something like this -> instead of CH invest more in campuses and buildings earlier. Get all these extra boosts as well. Globalisation delayed by certain number of turns - five to seven. But its ok because science output was much higher earlier on.
    Victory times would still come close - just in different ways. Its all about adapting.
     
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  12. SharTeel

    SharTeel Chieftain

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    I dunno, feels wierd rushing TD for a science victory, but it works and it's refreshing to play peacefully once in a while...archer rushing gets old :D
     
  13. Japper007

    Japper007 Chieftain

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    Some points/questions after watching all 4 parts posted so far. Note: these aren't critisisms, you are obviously a better player than me, but are more me trying to understand the strategy better :

    Why didn't you invest the free library and free uni GS into the city that was 2 turns away from finishing a Campus when you got him?

    Why didn't you build the Roman Bath unique? It would've boosted housing, adjacency and amenities. At barely more expensive than a Granary (at the time you unlock it) I usually prefer it when I need housing in a city.

    I understand going theatre square first when you get a discount for them through your civ (like with Japan or both Greeces), as you discount a district you'd normaly have to pay full price for. But couldn't you also go Campus first with other civs (so those without natural Theatre discounts) and end up in the same position, only now you have discounted theatres instead?
     
  14. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hi Japper
    great questions.
    So - the free library didn't go into that city because it was a good city with great production and it had everything else already built. So I figured if I put the free lib/uni into the city on the side, then that one can build an extra uni and a library.

    I considered the bath and decided against production wise. Initially I planned to just buy all the granaries - but the gold was tight, so I put bits of production in granaries in other cities. At that point not sure whether the unique was unlocked. I was also wary of using builder charges and wanted to prioritise district buildings.
    Honestly, the only reason I researched the tech was to get those envoys. I haven't played a Rome game in almost a year - so I'm totally not used to considering aquaducts as they are too expensive for other civs. I did build one for eureka later.Maybe I should have thought about it earlier.


    As for Theatres first - yes most amazing results by Chinese players go around Pericles and simiilar. I just wanted to do it with Rome.
    Regardless, I would still go for theatres first - because, from what I understand the power of this strategy comes from getting the great writers early and getting a cultural boost - which allows you to unlock civics faster - and civic progression is what pumps out the science later on. This lies in stark contrast to what I have normally been doing.

    Maybe going for quick campuses and discounting theatres could work too. Don't know as this is really my first attempt at this for me novel approach.

    Also, feel free to criticise - theres quite a few things I could have done better.
     
  15. Hactar

    Hactar Chieftain

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    What is the advantage of the +1 movement military policy card? I usually run Conscription / Levée en Masse cards for more gold if there’s no production bonus card needed.
     
  16. Japper007

    Japper007 Chieftain

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    It also works for civilian units, so Builders can enter a forest and chop on the same turn as well as being generally easier to manage.
     
  17. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    /claps This is amazing.

    And people were saying it wasn't possible because muh exploits. :lol:
     
  18. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    The strategy of playing tall and the strength of Kumasi combined with the GP+2%

    I'm very surprised that you can manage to get 200 Science per turn and 400 Culture per turn at ~T100, with only 10 cities or so. Even in usual games with 25~30 captured cities I rarely achieve that number. Maybe I underestimated Kumasi too much before. They can certainly burst out help given a good situation.

    Anyway I still don't think the "3 theatre" being a universal strategy, since not every game have a nearby Kumasi, or a theatre-UD Civ. Also, it's tricky to not let AIs declare on you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  19. Rogue-star

    Rogue-star Chieftain

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    Thank you for trying that theater style, and we are very much looking forward to your next video, especially after the expansion.

    Strictly speaking, 3-theater style is not that dependent on particular CSs. As long as finding at least 1 random cultural CS before ~T60, this game style is worth using. Rely on the +2 envoys card (diplomatic league) you can easily add to 3 envoys (mysticism, complete the task), which add 6 culture points per turn for 3 theaters. Then the amphitheater and the great works provide another 10+, it is nearly 20 early culture points (generally it is very hard to get culture incomes in early game). It is a significant boost that we can get merchant republic and enlightenment civic much earlier.

    According to my experiment, the globalization is not a universal choice for a not-so-good map/civ, for focusing on culture may delay others. In addition, I think 3 theaters are just fine, more than 3 will have a marginal effect, for we are playing a SV, not CV. Of course, globalization works well in your videos, because this map is really amazing! For Kumasi, this is a CS that can be the core of a strategy (may be named Kumasi style). Very wise choice for spamming CHs, I was even imaging to replacing the first 3 theaters with CHs (kidding).

    However, it still requires a lot of efforts in this style, because in our side, the 3-theater style is not an overnight operation. This is also a long time of peaceful play research. Now it doesn’t have to be a very good map, even not particularly depends on luck (AI’s aggressive expansion, or CS). We also expect you to develop a more effective routine, or to help us improve this play. Best wishes!:goodjob:
     
  20. razmog

    razmog Chieftain

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    Hi there,

    Love the video and the discussions, learned a lot.

    Have a question though,

    Why those numbers ? (I mean the calculation behind) why 3 TDs and why more TDs is marginal ?
     

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