People dislike seafood?

[Kid R]

+1 for coastal. I like it, especially if I start with fishing.

Access to three or four 2-coin tiles early in the game gives you some flexibility in early tech. The thing about favouring food 10/4 over commerce might be fair enough as a gross generalization but having the option to double your early research rate for targeted short periods, at the cost of growth, can be very useful.

 

[IAM]

three reasons for me

1- tech path doesn't favor seafood unless I'm playing an island map
2- barb galleys
3- graneries are likely to be built in everycity and give additional health for land based food resources (corn/wheat/rice). Have to wait for harbors for extra seafood health.

 

[JammerUno]

I hate barb galleys.

 

[Negator_UK]

I like fish on the ocean as they don't get pillaged by barbs, not so fond of coastal seafood though.

Still,any seafood drives me towards sailing early, which gets me off my butt-ox to get the GLH up, which invariably helps my game if I succeed.

 

[qyll]

3- graneries are likely to be built in everycity and give additional health for land based food resources (corn/wheat/rice). Have to wait for harbors for extra seafood health.

This is a big reason for me. Because you can only build harbors on coastal cities, only they get a health boost from seafood. Whereas with corn/wheat/rice, you can get a health boost in every city.

 

[Fluroscent]

There is a huge difference between fish and crab/clam.

Fish in capital = usually very useful to build workboat first. Crab/clam = very rarely warrants a workboat before the first settler is done.

For auxillary cities, a great feature of seafood is that it can be improved and worked from turn 1, if you have the workboat ready that is.

 

[georgjorge]

I'm rather fond of seafood, because like someone mentioned seafood (for the capital) usually comes in threes or fours, in general making for the highest total food yield. Not having as many tiles to improve as an inland city is okay since a GP farm doesn't need to work many tiles, and I often move my capital for Bureaucracy/upkeep anyway...

Is the high food yield + opportunity at Great Lighthouse enough to offset the slow start? Probably not though...

 

[Isikien]

I have no problem with seafood. Without seafood there would be no point in building coastal cities. Fish is quite obviously the best seafood you can have, and yes a seafood capital with a ton of hills and at least one metal is still good, you guys are forgetting GLH, Colossus and intercontinental trade late game, as well as the staging ground for an intercontinental invasion force.

Perhaps if work boats weren't such one shot pieces of crap, then I think it would make settling on the coast more viable. What doesn't help is that costal tiles are low yield tiles compared to the variety we get with land tiles. If we had the option to build something equivalent to a 'fish' farm on coastal tiles that don't even have the special resource then it wouldn't be such a problem. Transforming the workboat's function into something akin to a worker would solve this.

In conclusion:

1: Make the workboat a worker. It can continously improve throughout its lifetime. However when built it functions like a worker and settler, it requires food and hammers thus stopping the cities' growth.
2: Give the opportunity to 'farm improve' sea tiles. A +1 food improvement for the coast would be enough.

 

[nullspace]

Seafood at the capital is good if the seafood is fish, you start with fishing, and you have a three-hammer tile to work. That will get you an improved tile very early, and you can use that tile build your worker, and then grow to 2 pop to work the tile the worker improves. It goes very smoothly if you're lucky enough to get all the right conditions.

But if you don't start with fishing, or if you can't build the the workboat quickly, then the build order is just awkward. It's much easier to just build a worker while you research a job for him to do. You can't do that with a workboat.

 

[vicawoo]

+1 for coastal. I like it, especially if I start with fishing.

Access to three or four 2-coin tiles early in the game gives you some flexibility in early tech. The thing about favouring food 10/4 over commerce might be fair enough as a gross generalization but having the option to double your early research rate for targeted short periods, at the cost of growth, can be very useful.

Wouldn't you rather be able to double your growth at the cost of research rate? If you want to improve your research rate, just switch your mines to cottages.

Fishing boats are very expensive. Would I rather have two fishing boats or a worker that improves resources for the rest of the game? After ~5 turns, the worker gives me say +3 food, then 10 turns +3 food and +2 hammers, and so on.

Would I rather have a second fishing boat or two warriors to fogbust and prevent me from losing my 100 food/hammer investment into a new city?

So fishing boats are fine when: I have enough workers to improve all my land, if the costs of expansion outweigh the additional tile production, if I already have enough warriors to protect and fogbust. It's nice to have a balanced source of commerce while delaying pottery, though.

 

[Kid R]

I have no problem with seafood. Without seafood there would be no point in building coastal cities. Fish is quite obviously the best seafood you can have, and yes a seafood capital with a ton of hills and at least one metal is still good, you guys are forgetting GLH, Colossus and intercontinental trade late game, as well as the staging ground for an intercontinental invasion force.

Perhaps if work boats weren't such one shot pieces of crap, then I think it would make settling on the coast more viable. What doesn't help is that costal tiles are low yield tiles compared to the variety we get with land tiles. If we had the option to build something equivalent to a 'fish' farm on coastal tiles that don't even have the special resource then it wouldn't be such a problem. Transforming the workboat's function into something akin to a worker would solve this.

In conclusion:

1: Make the workboat a worker. It can continously improve throughout its lifetime. However when built it functions like a worker and settler, it requires food and hammers thus stopping the cities' growth.
2: Give the opportunity to 'farm improve' sea tiles. A +1 food improvement for the coast would be enough.

Intercontinental trade kicks in from sailing, not late game. Build a couple of island cities and see.

Workboat = "one shot piece of crap". Compared to worker they cost half price, let the city grow while building, do their job in just one turn instead of up to what, 20-odd turns, and they make excellent explorers.

"Improve sea tiles". The lighthouse does exactly what you suggested. It is one of the few buildings in the game which add a bonus to many tiles in the BFC. Or are you saying you want to be able to have 3-food coast? That would be unbalanced IMO - every coastal city would be a GP farm then. If you were to suggest seafood should be a little more abundant I might be with you then though.

 

[Kid R]

Wouldn't you rather be able to double your growth at the cost of research rate? If you want to improve your research rate, just switch your mines to cottages.

Yes but a coastal city gives you a nice option to focus on research for targeted short periods and slip an extra tech or two into that crowded early research schedule that you would not otherwise not be able to.

And often you have no cottageable land in the capital anyway.

 

[NihilZero]

Intercontinental trade kicks in from sailing, not late game. Build a couple of island cities and see.

That depends on how close the other landmass is. You can only trade across ocean tiles (as opposed to coast) when you get astronomy. This applies to resources as well as commerce.

 

[IAM]

If there are going to be fish 'farms' then they should be in ponds and lakes inland.

 

[drlake]

I'm surprised this thread has gone this long without a reference to seafood allergies...

 

[Isikien]

Intercontinental trade kicks in from sailing, not late game. Build a couple of island cities and see.

Workboat = "one shot piece of crap". Compared to worker they cost half price, let the city grow while building, do their job in just one turn instead of up to what, 20-odd turns, and they make excellent explorers.

"Improve sea tiles". The lighthouse does exactly what you suggested. It is one of the few buildings in the game which add a bonus to many tiles in the BFC. Or are you saying you want to be able to have 3-food coast? That would be unbalanced IMO - every coastal city would be a GP farm then. If you were to suggest seafood should be a little more abundant I might be with you then though.

I think you're thinking in terms of an archipelago map script. I'm referring to trade across oceans as a result of obtaining Astronomy. The same with where you describe the work boat as a good explorer; though I'd rather build a work boat to work not scout.

If seafood became more abundant I feel that may be worse, and I have no clue as to how much you'd feel would be enough.

 

[Kid R]

You're right, I've been playing mostly fractal, and landmasses reachable with sailing are pretty common there. Bout time to revisit continents maps I think (fires up game...)