Pere - 001

[gunnerxtr]

good turns, however:

1) I dont think we need the temple because i think we could just settle another city to get it in our borders
2)Why build chariots?
3) we were supposed to switch to Philosophy and you have started map mapmaking?!
- maybe this was becuase you figured it was too late to go for philosophy and you may be right about that, I have a hard time gauging it.

 

[DBear]

Gunnerxtr

I did switch the temples out.
I'm building chariots to later upgrade to horses/knights.
I saw that the Zulus were ahead of us and figured that someone on the mainland was already going for Philo, so I started mapping.

 

[gunnerxtr]

I did switch the temples out.

you're right i missed that, sry.

 

[Mach]

So...a few chariots, researching toward MM, and the earlier rax build in Carthage...are we gearing up for war already? That might not be a bad idea -- once the cow towns come fully online (~15 turns from now?), they can feed our civ...and we can start placing other cities on war production, skimming off the occasional settler/worker... The Spanish should be easy pickins for us.

I'm not sure I like researching MM, though. How many turns would philo have taken us at max with our current economy? Also, did you try to buy writing from the Zulu once they had it? (Although I'm not sure how discounts on techs work when we're doing min runs...maybe it wasn't worth it.)

I think that settler will have to be moved a spot to line up with our dotmap, although I'm not sure until I've looked at the save. I'm not concerned with getting the irons within our borders; it's not like anyone else could claim them in the near future, and we don't need them right now. We should continue to settle productive cities first, then fishing villages later.

All in all I think we're in pretty good shape here.

 

[predesad]

seems like pretty good turns, but i haven't viewed the save.

i disagree about going for map making instead of philosophy, i would have still tried for philosophy because of AI tendancy, but I was also just beaten to phil while attempting the rep slingshot in another SG. IMHO, unless another civ actually discovers phil it is always worth the chance for the free tech. But i am not complaining just expressing my difference of opinion.

i vote we refuse to make peace with the iroquois until they make us a concession of some kind, we may even have to go over there and make them regret declaring

i am about to view the save when i take my pbem turns, but am planning to wait at least until tomorrow night to take the turn so let me know of any input / advice, i may post something to debate

mach -
dbear - just played
predesad - up
elmarae - on deck
gunner -

 

[gunnerxtr]

hmm i dont have too many suggestions, just settle dots and explore and trade.

what do you guys think we should attack with? horses or swords? and should we bring catapults? we are going to need a bunch of galleys....

 

[gunnerxtr]

Ok well im not too good at dotmaps but i figured a screenie could boost discussion and we could hammer out some settling locations:

 

[gunnerxtr]

now, lol, obviously this is only 1 settling location.

BUT i think it should be the blue dot becasue it will free up space for the settler to the west and it will grab the whale.

If anyone wants to add dots feel free, because i dont wanna be the one to screw up a settling spot, hehe.

 

[predesad]

blue dot is prolly best, i think we have had several dotmaps, but they keep getting overlooked with the increasing number of posts so they are hard to find, i think dbear made one, i ahd one with just a couple changes, perhaps everyone should just dl one of those and then can refer to it instead of hunting for it on the thread or reposting dotmaps, although everyone is free to make their own dotmaps if they want.

as far as attacks, either horse or swords works for me, if swords, bring catapults, if horses maybe reconsider since the cats might slow us down, although we can unload right next to a city so maybe not. i think it will still be awhile before we are ready for an invasion though and i still would not be suprised if it is not until the MA. however, if we do start building up for an invasion, perhaps we can stockpile units to the very north, stockpile some galleys there as well, and then when we are ready for an invasion, instead of having to take all units at once, transport a few every turn and then declare war and move into city borders once we have all the units there.

 

[gunnerxtr]

You're right about the dotmaps, the only reason i posted this one is because i thought we would just come up with priorities for settling, but mainly becuase we lacked a screenshot to begin with.

I agree about troop transportation, but by the middle ages Spain will have their entire island covered by their borders i would bet, if not then we could do waht you said.

 

[predesad]

actually i was thinking of two different scenarios:

1) MA campaign

2) transport a few units at a time in the AA

 

[Mach]

Ok, I took a look at the save, and some things have changed. So my thinking has changed along with it. First, since our two curraghs hit land, we have no need of more suicide missions...so we aren't building any more curraghs. Second, the iron is about to be hooked up in 2 turns. Once that is done, we can't build warriors anymore! (I guess we'll have to build spears for mps now.) Also we've lost our philo run, so we don't need to be careful with our economy so much now.

Obviously we keep building settlers & workers when we have the population to do so. Expansion is still our first priority. But I'm concerned about what we'll build while we're waiting for our population to grow...

Anyway, I'm thinking it's time to gear up for war with the Spanish. That means a few rax, and a few vet swords. Cats in corrupt cities that don't merit rax. (We don't have any yet, but we will...) Galleys once we have MM. We really only need ~6 swords for the initial assault. So that means:

Switch Leptis Minor (cow town) to a granary.
Switch Hippo to a rax.
Switch Carthage to a sword (in 2 turns).
Switch Leveste to a rax.
Switch Leptis Magna to a, er, spear? (We don't want a rax here, it's going to be a shipbuilding center soon enough.)
Move our current settler 1 spot se to settle on the hill, as per our dotmap. Build a rax.
Settle blue dot next.
Trades: there's really nothing doing right now.
When MM is finished, start on something at min? Or go to 0% research altogether?

Just my two cents. What do you guys think?

Oh yeah, I'm thinking swords for our attack force, since reinforcements might be slow to arrive. Swords have a better suvival rate...

 

[gunnerxtr]

If we are plannning running min science we should consider doing the lone sceintist trick...

 

[predesad]

i am completely against min science unless we fall way behind, which could happen given our land, but harbors when we get MM will help with commerce

do we really want to get the iron hooked up and gear up for war now, well, what else is there to do? but more warriors would have been nice for mps

 

[Mach]

do we really want to get the iron hooked up and gear up for war now

Well, if it were up to me, I wouldn't have hooked it up at this point. However since the road is 1 turn from being done, I vote let it finish. I think we'll do fine with it. I figure since this is a long (space?) game, we'll want spears at some point because they have a cheaper upgrade path, and a larger deterrent value than warriors. I know we're in no danger of being attacked, but a bigger army would help keep us out of phony wars...

Also with our tight spacing & good road network, we can shuffle mps around as needed. I like that. This decreases the number of total mps we'll need for our civ.

You're probably right about no min science, I didn't feel confident about that when I wrote it. I was just thinking how, once we have MM, there isn't any tech we really need for quite awhile...not until we're ready to build markets & libs...

Good luck, pred!

 

[predesad]

...not until we're ready to build markets & libs...

which would prolly be about now, IMHO, will post more about this when i get a chance to play the turn, which wont be until sometime after i get home from church

 

[predesad]

okay guys, a little difficulty & just wondering what everyone else thinks:

th emp issue has gotten out of hand after Sabrath founded by iron, can no longer build warriors. we cannot build spears, and numidian mercs are 30 shields, would rather spend those 30 shields on horses or swords. about to get HBR from egypt, so no more chariots. this allows us to build only 30 shield units with the exception of archers. should we build archers for mp or go ahead and invest the extra 10 shields on horses / swords or even a numidian merc (they'll come in handy eventually when we want a GA. Also, how many barracks should we build, if we decide to go for the 30 shield units exclusively then we would prolly want more barracks, but maintenance is an issue. should we let some cities grow and produce military, or do we want to put out settlers as fast as possible meaning we keep the cities small, this also affects the barracks, small cities less barracks, IMHO. i thought i had another issue for debate, but it escapes me now. oh, we might consider a prebuild for the GL because things look like they might get ugly in the tech race. i dont like using the GL, but this might be a save our hides move. later when we have fishing villages in operation our economy should be adequate thru the MA with a little "help" from spain & trhe iroquois but even with our early contacts it seems the AI are going to run away with the tech race and prevent trading opportunites, both phil & map making have been discovered by other civs which means by the itme we discover map making it could be untradeable. we can beat the AI to the GL by doing 3 things:

1) start prebuild ASAP
2) research literature and not trade it to any AI
3) convert one of the cow cities frrm worker factory to GL prebuild, it will grow fast and be capable of high shields once we do get to 6 citizens

i am undecided, we have very little to fear by way of attack so the loss of the shields would not impact us as much as if we had a real neighbor, what do you guys think?

 

[gunnerxtr]

i say go for the great library.

about the military... i say we invest in swords as MP's its a tough decision (and my solution could very well be wrong) but i think these will come in handy for the assault on Spain.

 

[Mach]

If we were to go for a wonder, I would prefer something involving happiness, like the gardens, or artemis. These will simultaneously help our economy and our population size. I don't know the situation, but I'm confident that we can dig ourselves out of whatever tech hole we're in, given time. All we need to do is stay with the Spanish & Iroquois...

I forgot we can't build spears...damn. I like swords. I like rax in our non-coastal cities, plus the one in our capital. When we get math, build cats in corrupt cities.

 

[predesad]

okay, things may not look as bad as i initially thought, perhaps it is wise not to use the GL after all, research has been @ 100% and map making is only in 6 turns and it has not been traded around yet and there are some good trading opportunities if we get it before it gets around

preturn:

changed production of several cities as Mach suggested:
Leptis Minor - granary (worker factory)
Hippo - barracks
Theveste - barracks
Leptis Magna - chariot (we CANNOT build spears & Numidian Mercenaries are too expensive, would rather wait and spend the 30 sheilds on a sword, in the maentime at least chariots will upgrade to something useful)

32 turns seems a long time for MM, we have spent 3 turns of research, after some mm & research increased to 80% map making in 30 turns, lux reduced to 0%

utica builds settler --> warrior (to be sword when iron)

1 - 1200 BC: meet england, up hbr & math; fortify a bunch of units for mp, move workers from iron to cows to speed up worker factory

2 - 1175 BC: meet Egyptian warrior (trade writing for HBR); also see blue borders; Sabratha founded - archer for mp; Carthage production changed to sword; uttica / leptis magna to archer for cheap mp (chariot no longer available)

3 - 1150 BC: various worker actions, want to irrigate around river so those tiles can be worked for extra commerce

4 - 1125 BC

5 - 1100 BC: Babylon found, even in tech; Celts discover philosophy, claim math as free tech (assumption, they could have traded for philosophy)

Carthage = sword -> settler; Utica = archer -> settler; Leptis Magna = archer -> settler

6 - 1075 BC: Rusicade founded - warrior to be changed when resources are hooked up; moved archer to Leptis Minor for MP; moved archer towards Rusicade for MP; Babylon discovers map making

7 - 1050 BC: Spain discovers math, we trade them HBR for math; trade math to Babylon for 88 gold since that tech is widespread; science to 100% (-3 gpt, math 9 turns); production in sabratha changed to horse

8 - 1025 BC:

9 - 1000 BC: Egypt discovers polytheism

Leptis Minor = granary -> worker

10 - 975 BC: worker starts to clear forest by Carthage, keep in mind for next production after settler

overall, a lot of micormanagement, mostly i moved citiznes around to improve commerce, in Leptis Magna specifically, i was careful to work the lake because the extra shield from working a mined tile was corrupted anyway, trying to work as many river tiles as possible, tech race might start looking better if map making does not get traded around, i would try to get polytheism first from egypt; also note that utica is working 3 river tiles for 4 shields, it builds settler in 4 turns, but can be MM when settler has 2 turns left for one additional shield and build it in 3 turns instead of 4.

sorry, forgot the pic, but here is the save: