PH03: Happy Little Wonderland

[Ozbenno]

My guess is that Brennus called him up and said

"Greetings PH03, Did you know that GreyFox is more entertaining than Rex?"

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

"Greetings PH03, Did you know that GreyFox is more entertaining than Rex?"

Oh no you di'n't! SACRILEGE (mmmm, sacrilicious)!!! OUTRAGE!!! I DEMAND A RECOUNT!!! Fox couldn't story-tell his way out of a paper bag! (Well, at least you didn't compare me to Pholk.) If I weren't a gentlemen, I'd make you wait an extra day for this report. Instead, I turn the other cheek and take precious time out of work to labor tirelessly at this report, choosing every word with such care that my brain bleeds from the effort. And this is the thanks I get...? Sheesh! Anyway, sit down and shut up. Did you rub my lamp? You're gettin' your wishes!

1750 A bunch of strange people argued over civics before I played. Sound? Check. Fury? Check. Nothing? Oh definitely, check. So again, I have to make up my own damned mind about things. Let's see where we are:

Well, UniSuf might help us out in the long run, but the one turn of anarchy wouldn't do well for our wonder-snatching prospects. I decide to wait and don't switch civics, despite this compelling offer:

Also in 1750, some great dude was born somewhere. I don't know. I didn't really notice. It wasn't ours.

Next on the list was that someone suggested selling strategic resources. Well, we have four fraq'in coppers. Let's see if we can't finance my smack habbit for a few more turns...

In 1760, St. Pete finishes its Mosque. That's the last religious building we'll ever build...or is it...?

I chose to build a forge, rather than culture. I figure, once we build culture, that +25% might be nice. And now that we have a Mosque, let's see how we're doing...

Hmmm...still dead last. Has the building's effect been added yet? Doesn't look like much of a gain.

Anyhow, in 1770, Cyrus shows up and wants a trade.

I said no. Not that the trade is that bad, but I was grumpy and we're Cathy, so I acted like we were on the rag and started crying. That drove him off well enough. Anyway, shortly thereafter, I used a missionary to spread Judaism in Tacape. That's one of Hannibal's border dumps.

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

So now comes the bad part of the set. 1780. Well, remember a little further up in my report:

Also in 1750, some great dude was born somewhere. I don't know. I didn't really notice. It wasn't ours.

Here's what that really said:

Anyone care to guess why that was important? That's right, boys and girls.

I seem to remember someone cough: Ozbenno :cough saying something like this:

Both wonders are due in less than 15 and we have a monopoly on both techs so I don't see a problem. I'd leave the slider as close to 100% culture as we can manage.

in response to Pholk saying:

I think that we should continue to research techs until we're assured of those two wonder

So Ozzy, how *do* you like your crow? Roasted with a little lemon or deep fried with greens?

Anyhow, this collosal clusterf**k made me completely shift gears. First I checked the tech trade screens, but they all sucked. Next I looked at research paths. It looks like our best bet is Broadway with Physics=>Electricity, (but I'm imfamously wrong on such things usually). Since Physics isn't due for another 116 turns, I decided to turn the slider to 60/40, bringing physics in ten turns. On the bright side, we got 1380-something gold for having built 90% of SoL. As you see, we were only five turns away.

So, shaking my head, I move along, vowing never to trust an Australian. First Steve Irwin (the Dr. says it'll grow back) and now this. :sigh:

In 1785, Brennus does something unexpected and we now have Buddhism in Moscow...Hmmm...Dare we? I didn't do anything about it, but the next player might want to. Three temples will get us one Buddhist cathedral-type building and help bring St. Pete up to the rest of the pack....

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

So let's recap our big three cities and their culture. (all figures are at 40% culture slider)

Moscow: 335/turn. 14,835 total
St. Petersburg: 289.6/turn. 15,535 total
Novgorod: 324.9/turn. 13,280 total

Which speed are we on? Is our target 50k or 75?

Grumble, Grumble, Rant, and Rumble

 

[Zophos]

Ow. Just...ow. Makes me wish we had an army so we could teach Khan a lesson.

To answer a couple of items you raised:

1. When you 'build culture', building modifiers don't apply. It's just 1 base hammer->1 culture. Forges, Cathedrals, etc. don't help a bit.
2. Normal speed. 50k culture is the target. So we're looking at about 120 turns at current levels (35k left at ~300/turn), or 70-ish turns at 500/turn.

Which begs the question - how fast can we build Broadway in Cuman? IIRC, it's got crap production, we already chopped all the trees, and our GE has been turned into about 1000 gold. Broadway costs 800 hammers and has no accelerator resource, and we can't even start for 20 turns or so (when we discover Electricity).

I still think we can win our culture victory, but we might have to slow down to finish our last Wonder before we do it. Or is there another potential GE that we can score in time? I can't see that going to UniSuff and BUYING it is feasible, but I haven't run the numbers, either.

And we've got, what, 5 turns to go on the Kremlin? Pholk, consider whipping/chopping/whatever to get it - missing TWO Wonders would put us in a whole new realm of pain.

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

Why is buying Broadway not feasible? Turn culture and science down to 0 as soon as we learn electricity. In two turns, we'll have enough to buy it. (Remember, Kremlin = 33% discount.)

 

[Zophos]

Why is buying Broadway not feasible? Turn culture and science down to 0 as soon as we learn electricity. In two turns, we'll have enough to buy it. (Remember, Kremlin = 33% discount.)

Well, because I recall there being a hefty penalty for rushing Wonders. Much larger than rushing units or regular buildings.

Ok...so I loaded up the save briefly to check my intuition. Here's what I found.

In Yakutsk, we have 684/800 hammers on Kremlin. Can't actually cash-rush (without US), but the hover text shows the cost as 1584 gold. That's nine gold per hammer to rush the Wonder. I don't know if 1/2-price resources affect the calculation (we've got Stone for the Kremlin), but if they do, we're looking at eighteen gold/hammer when we go to buy Broadway.

With Broadway, assume that we (a) have the Kremlin, and (b) put at least one hammer in before we rush (so I can ignore the rush-first-turn penalty). That means we have to spend about 800*9*(2/3) = 4800 gold to rush it. We're making just shy of 800/turn now at 100% gold.

So, yeah, we can buy Broadway outright, but it takes about 6 turns of running at 100% gold to do it - 12 if 1/2-price resources actually matter. Still a much better bet than an Engineer, so I stand corrected.

 

[Zophos]

Yep...found the source of the penalty in the XML. Each building (including Wonders) has an iHurryCostModifier, expressed as a percentage multiplier to ADD to the regular cost of hurrying. It's 0 for regular buildings, and anywhere from 50 to 300 for NWs and WWs. Kremlin and Broadway both have 200, so it costs 9/hammer rather than the regular 3/hammer.

Pricing appears to be on raw hammers left to complete, regardless of any production modifiers (forge, resources, etc.)

 

[Zophos]

Hrm...wonder how many posts I can do in a row.

We should run at 100% science until we get Electricity, then 100% gold 'til we can buy Broadway, then back to 100% culture. Running a mix now doesn't get us to Legendary any faster overall, but it does potentially delay Broadway.

At 100% science, we should have Physics in 4, Electricity in 9 more, then about 6 turns at 100% gold (while we start to build Broadway), plus one (?) turn to switch into UniSuff (and Pacifism, if it doesn't cost any extra turns), then buy Broadway. Total...20 turns. Then it's flat-out culture 'til we win!

 

[Ozbenno]

So Ozzy, how *do* you like your crow? Roasted with a little lemon or deep fried with greens?

Plain is fine!

Aw man, that really sucks (losing the wonder, not the crow, its actually quite tasty!).

Agree with Zophos, 100% science until electricity and then 100% gold until we can buy Broadway and then 100% culture.

It would also be worth building the buddhist temples and missionaries in the non-big 3 cities (where possible).

 

[Zophos]

Apparently I don't have enough to do today.

I scanned back through the Event Log in the save file. There were a whole pile of Great People born since 1700, including a GE born in Beshbalik in 1720 and one in Kyoto in 1705. No other World Wonders were built since then ('cept the one Rex already told us about). So....Khan and Tokugawa each still have one up their respective sleeves, unless they burned 'em on NWs or techs or something (anyone know how likely this is?).

Neither one has Communism (yet), but I'd still advocate MMing Yakutsk to see if we can bring the Kremlin in a turn or two faster, just in case. More upsetting is the idea that Tokugawa, who already has Physics, could beat us to Electricity and rush Broadway with a GE. I don't know if he would do it, but Tokugawa turns out to be the mythical Wonder Monkey - he has built six Wonders already, plus a couple of Shrines.

The NEXT techs with a wonder attached would be Radio (Eiffel Tower, Rock-N-Roll), then Mass Media (UN, Hollywood). I'll be over in the corner, waiting for Pholk's turns and hoping we don't need to know that.

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

Interesting. I never knew about the penalty for rushing wonders. Shows how often I do it. Anyway, Pholk hasn't responded yet. He *is* up, right?

 

[pholkhero]

I am up, and i've got it. And look, Zophos took over Rex's Spamming Role

That really blows about the wonder, and will abide by the 100% plans. Will play later today, but am not feeling all that well, so it might not be until tonight. we'll see . . .

 

[Zophos]

And look, Zophos took over Rex's Spamming Role

Yeah, it was a bit stream-of-consciousness yesterday. Closed a big deal, so I took some mental time off to just bask in it. Then, of course, I spent that time figuring ROIs on fictional buildings.

(In case anyone cares, the ROI on a Buddhist Stupa in St. Pete is quite good, so we should go ahead and build one. Temple by itself is iffy at best, so the three go into St. Pete and two secondaries (say, Yekaterinburg and Yakutsk), then the Stupa in St. Pete.)

Will play later today, but am not feeling all that well, so it might not be until tonight. we'll see . . .

Heh. If you do it on the early side, we might be able to get me and Oz to play before morning. No worries, though - the game (and the rest of us) will be there whenever you're feeling up to it.

 

[pholkhero]

well, i just played 20, and will be pulling a mini-Rex ~ Report to come later tonight, but guess which Very Bad Thing (TM) happened during MY turnset

 

[Ozbenno]

I'll have a stab and say someone (not looking at you Tokogawa) built Broadway!

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

guess which Very Bad Thing (TM) happened during MY turnset

Okay, first you TM my quote from ROTQM. Then you named *this* game after it. Now you have the ordacity to TM this? Have you no shame?

Oh and my nickel is on this not being an actual bad thing. Pholk just wanted to borrow my line. Probably something like our expected Great Engineer turned out to be a scientist.

 

[pholkhero]

You're the Marconi to my Bell ~

~ and something really did happen

Okay, first things first. It's better to be safe than sorry:

I'm gonna rush-buy the Kremlin ASAP *just in case*

It takes me another turn to get enough money, but in 1804:

And so obviously:

Okay, one down, one to go! Keep your fingers crossed. Physics is done next turn, and then Electricity, so . . .

1808 and the Carthaginian people of Sabratha LOVE us so much, thy rise up in protest:

Now that we're done with Communism, I tried to trade it around.

That was all i could get from anyone.

But, as i was looking for anyone else to trade with, I noticed this:

Uh-oh!

On the next turn, Hannibal comes by, getting all grabby:

I also built up a couple Buddhist Missionaries and sent them right to St Pete and Novgorod for quick builds of temples.

You'll notice one of them failed. BUddhism would later spread on its own there for some reason . . . fate?

Kubey starts off 1818 with a trade offer:

Why not? The countries that trade together, stay together.

I'm also able to spread Judaism to all of Hannibals cities, in hopes that he'll swap.

He won't change per our request, either.

In 1824, after some quiet turns, Brennus has a demand for us:

Okay, i can do that. I don't see much thread from Persia.

8 more years passed in quiet reflection, but then the people of Sabratha sent a missive to us:

uhhh, no. We need another city like we need a hole in the head . . . The city is disbanded.

to be continued . . .

 

[pholkhero]

Did somebody say, "a hole in the head"?

Awesome! This is our first war, no??

Well, we lost a worker on the declaration and the longbow from the disbanded ex-Carthaginian city. However, this is Happy Little Wonderland (TM to RT b/c he has sand in his vagina), and we want wonders, and money's no object:

Okay, that's fine. Variant satisfied. Crank up the slider to 100% (it ends up @ 90% in order to make money)

Hannibal is sending some troops piecemeal to Yakutsk. I've been able to take out some Cav's with the newly-created Cossacks. We've also generated Russia's first Great General:

I sent him to Yakutsk to merge him with a Cossack. Unfortunately, he was in a stack of 3 others and they only got about 5 xps each. D'oh!!

I also decide that we need to get some more defense since Hannibal has Artillery

I also traded someone for Rifling, too. The trades were WAY one-sided, but i figured our security is paramount.

Okay, i played 20, and it's now 1840. Here's the situation @ Yakutsk:

Zophos, you may want to counter-attack, but i'm not sure. Most of the Cossacks are wounded, but those artillery are scaring me.

Here's the F1 screen so someone less lazy than me (cough *zophos* cough) can calculate how many turns till we win

And here's russia:

Roster:
Pholkhero > just played
Zophos > UP NOW
Ozbenno > on deck
Imhotep >
Rex >

The Zave for Zophos

 

[pholkhero]

65 turns. Play 10, 15, 20...whatever...