PH07: The School of Athens

pholkhero · May 31, 2007

Zophos said:
Ok....got the save. However, I can't play tonight, and likely not tomorrow (Thu). So, pholk, if you can play before Friday, I'm happy to swap. Just let me know.

works out well as I can't play this weekend.

I've got it, and I'll play it today.

edit: also, Pigs cancelled the deal, but also bulbed our GS on Compass, so we'll need another (which is in, what, 17 turns?) and *try* for another for Educ. Perhaps a revolt to CS and Pascifism once Philo is in??

pigswill · May 31, 2007

Its 14 turns to next GS, 10 turns to CoL. Bulbing compass got us calendar, currency, monarchy and 150 gold; currency in itself knocked 5 turns off CoL. We could have kept the GS in reserve but that wouldn't have guaranteed winning the philosophy race imo.
Losing the fish in Paris is a significant problem because it loses us the ability to run 2 scientists for next GS.

pholkhero · May 31, 2007

pigswill said:
that wouldn't have guaranteed winning the philosophy race imo..

what do we get if we win the race? Taoism and trade bait, or am I missing something?? I'm fine with having it been used for Compass, as we sorely needed several of those techs.

pholkhero · Jun 1, 2007

Turn 191/660 (350 AD) [31-May-2007 22:09:31]
Okay, I opened up the game and did a bit of tinkering. I MMed a bit at sparta to slow growth and speed up the Great Lighthouse, goes from 17-14, a forest is coming down next turn. Also I upped research to 70 for -5 gpt, CoL in 8.
Sparta's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 192/660 (365 AD) [31-May-2007 22:13:37]
Our workers finish the plantation on the silk near Sparta and the shields go to the city. We may need to end up farming over this tile so that we can irrigate all the rest of the tiles near the city.

I also started to send the army south to head towards Phoenician.
Sorbone grows: 4

IBT:

Turn 193/660 (380 AD) [31-May-2007 22:15:20]
Athens finished its Trireme, and moved in on the wounded barb ship:

While attacking in Greek territory at Athens, Trireme I of Athens (Trireme) defeats (0.08/2): Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 95.2%)

IBT:

Turn 194/660 (395 AD) [31-May-2007 22:16:34]
Nothing much, but Athens grows to 6 and Sparta grows to 5

IBT:

Turn 195/660 (410 AD) [31-May-2007 22:17:50]
Im greeted this turn by the fact that weve hit half a million people. Sweet! I examine the screens to check our position:

And, for some reason, I check out the Top 5 Cities screen.

What?!

I cant even believe that!! Built on the turn I looked!! Did I will them to build it by checking the screen?!?
As an afterthought, Cambridge's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 196/660 (425 AD) [31-May-2007 22:18:59]
That was too weird with the library, and it really sucks! I think Sparta should become our military city (how quaint) and hence, Sparta begins: Barracks (4 turns). We DID get a chunk of change for missing that, as our consolation prize

IBT:

Turn 197/660 (440 AD) [31-May-2007 22:20:33]
Cambridge finishes its Library, and start it on a Granary to speed growth, and help the :whipped:

if we need it.

IBT:

Turn 198/660 (455 AD) [31-May-2007 22:21:04]
Code of Laws came due, and I, of course, chose Civil Service (22 Turns) so that we can spread the irrigation far and wide. I also spotted this to our SW:

Another suck-ass thing to happen!
Princeton finishes: Trireme
Athens finishes: Swordsman
Sparta finishes: Barracks

IBT:

Turn 199/660 (470 AD) [31-May-2007 22:21:56]
Athens finished a swordsmen, (so THATs what was in the queue), and started on a lighthouse (9 turns) to capitalize on the fish. Sparta finished its barracks, and is going on to a Phalanx (5 turns) Princeton had a sword in the queue. I almost decided against it, but figured we might need it, and it boosts our power rating a bit.
We also got a more crummy news:

jesus! You can see that our army got there just last turn, and wouldve taken the city on this one!! I think it's time to plan for some war to expand our empire a bit, and weaken our rivals. England would be nice, but not a very strategic decision, i think, with it sharing a religion with the Zulus. More likely, india is the better target. Moving units thataway to await discussion.

IBT:

Turn 200/660 (485 AD) [31-May-2007 22:27:02]
Asoka started off the turn by wanting to trade:

That, got me thinking, though, about trading, so I checked the f6 screen and called up Shaka.

CoL was known by others, so I figured Id use it to catch up, and please our unpredictable neighbor to the north. We lost out on the trade, obviously, but I thought the diplo pts were worth it.
I called Asoka back up:

I know we might attack him, and shouldnt help him out, but I relish the idea of getting Constr to build phants and cats to get him with!

I also started a settler to whip when possible to settle up in the NW for those rice and clams.

IBT:

Turn 201/660 (500 AD) [31-May-2007 22:29:53]
Shaka came by and made a demand:

IBT:
And, lo and behold, check it out: Attitude Change: Asoka(India) towards Shaka(Zululand), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed' we may be able to get involved in a war with Shaka vs. Asoka. Something to think about, anyway.

Turn 202/660 (515 AD) [31-May-2007 22:30:59]
Shaka came by again with a trade proposal:

I accepted this as well, since Construction was known by Asoka, and he may use it on him as well. I also whipped the Settler, and am sending him off.

IBT:

Turn 203/660 (530 AD) [31-May-2007 22:32:08]
Not a darn thing happens this turn, but moving workers around.

IBT:

Turn 204/660 (545 AD) [31-May-2007 22:33:01]
Frederick comes by with a trade offer

I accepted. We can cancel it in 10. I also notice that two of our neighbors know feudalism:

Louis Pasteur (Scientist) (Great Scientist) born in Princeton
Athens grows: 4

...to be continued...

pholkhero · Jun 1, 2007

Turn 205/660 (560 AD) [31-May-2007 22:34:14]
Wow, only 2 more turns to go. So, with the GS in hand:

Taoism founded in Sorbone

I didn't revolt just yet b/c i think we should talk about it, but I think this would be best for the empire at this time. We could generate at least one more GS to be used on the way to liberalism, grab Nat'l and then onto Constitution for Representation.

IBT:

Turn 206/660 (575 AD) [31-May-2007 22:36:03]
I chose this at Cambridge, though I think it's the wrong build. However, check it out:

I didn't know it gave an extra happy face. That would come in handy with War Weariness if needed.

In the NW, Shaka Approaches:

we should beat him there next turn. You can name it anything you want, Codeman.

I also used the new Taoist missionary to spread the faith to Princeton, and he succeeds. And that's the end of my set.

Here's an overview shot:

and other screens:
GNP

POWER

DEMO

So we should decide who to expand into, and also about revolting to CS, Philo or both, or neither.

Techwise (and my shot of the f6 screen didn't come out), we're doing okay, and i'm not worried for now. We'll be the first to Liberalism, I think, and be in a comfortable position for the end-game. We'll just need to focus on keeping tech parity, and gaining a lead, as well as make sure we have hte necessary production.

zophos is up now

Zophos · Jun 1, 2007

Ok...d/l'd the save, but haven't opened it yet. I'll take a look around this evening.

lukep · Jun 2, 2007

Hmm. beaten to GL sucks. Especially by bismark who also own pyramids.

Warraing against Asoke is strategically better, but taking Berlin would be awesome now, and less good later. difficult choice

pigswill · Jun 2, 2007

Or else war on no-one; switch to caste/pacifism and start churning out scientists and merchants to get a decent tech lead before our next expansion.

pholkhero · Jun 2, 2007

pigswill said:
Or else war on no-one; switch to caste/pacifism and start churning out scientists and merchants to get a decent tech lead before our next expansion.

that might not be too bad, but we'll need more land at some point in order to win the space race methinks. Perhaps go for Cavalry and make the move, or wait until later for tanks?

Zophos · Jun 3, 2007

Ok...I have taken a look around, but haven't had time to actually play turns yet. Should be able to play and post tonight, though.

A few observations:

A war against Asoka looks like suicide to me. He's got Feudalism, so he'll have longbows. We won't have maces for at least 25-30 turns (CS is in 15, but we'll be about bankrupt then, even without founding a 6th city). Asoka is also the power leader.
Pacifism is going to be expensive, unless we disband some of our troops. We'll save 5 gpt on OR, but we'll pay another 15 or so for the troop maintenance (well, a bit less due to the handicap, but still).

I think our best bet is to wait on the war and try to tech up a bit (at least to maces) with Scientists and a couple Merchants to balance the budget. Fortunately, we do have food to spare in several cities.

That's the plan I'll run with tonight, unless I hear something different.

pholkhero · Jun 4, 2007

That sounds good. any progress? Just want to jumpkick the game a bit.

Zophos · Jun 4, 2007

Yes...I've been bad. 'Net connection went down this morning (weather has been biblical), and only just came up. I'm posting RotQM now, with this one to follow. Assuming I don't get cut off again...

Zophos · Jun 4, 2007

All right....typing fast before the connection goes down again (I've already lost it twice while uploaded pics). So this will be a short report.

A fairly uneventful 15 turns. Hightlights:

I founded Dartmouth on the sign, as suggested (so that it can access the clams). However, a few turns later, Churchill plopped a city in our backyard.

Bastard snatched the rice. There will be a border war over this one. Darmouth is currently running an Artist to pop borders, and building a library, since it's the cheapest culture-producing building available.
I made the civics switch as suggested (Pacifism & Caste System). Expenses went up, but not as much as I feared - about 8 gpt.
No conflicts, although we're still well behind in Power. Everybody likes us a lot, 'cept Asoka.
I've tried my hand at setting specialists and MM'ing for an SE. What I've learned is that I don't really know what I'm doing. So please change the settings (and tell me why mine suck...specifically). I basically tried to grow some extra pop and then balance the budget, but Science is suffering for it.
We got CS on my last turn.

I have NOT revolted to Bureaucracy. Paper is selected as the next tech, but no beakers are invested yet.
We can catch up about three techs (and a lot of gold), if we're willing to part with Philosophy. I wanted to consult with the group before giving it away (since it's a pre-req for Liberalism), but we ought to be able to get Machinery, Feudalism, Music, and 400+ gold for it. EVERYONE has been by to ask for Philo - all trade requests so far.

Sorry for the wait. Won't happen again.

Spoiler Turn log :

The Save

pholkhero · Jun 4, 2007

good turns, and don't worry about the weight. I saw that work was giving you trouble last week and figured it followed you home.

I think the swap to Bureau is a must, though perhaps not giving away Philo yet. Maybe as we get closer to finishing up Paper. Unless, of course, no one else can even research paper yet . . . it's toss-up, and if I get time before Codeman plays, I'll post a pic of the f6 screen.

maybe we should aim for a Liberalism>Nat'l sling so we can grab MIl Trad for Cavs to take on Asoka (keep the warring till then), and then for Constit (and Demo for the Statue).

we need to start farming everywhere, too, so perhaps we'll need another worker or two.

What are everyone else's thoughts? I'd like to build a consensus before Codeman plays since, as he admits, he's not a normal monarch player, and the SE requires special care.

edit: i'll try to grab the save tonight and look it over, too.
Roster (15 turns)
Zophos >> just played
Pholkhero >> swapped
Codeman >> UP NOW
Lukep >> on deck
Pigswill >>

edit 2: look around. getting a inspection/suggestion report done now.

pholkhero · Jun 4, 2007

Turn 221/660 (800 AD)
okay, paper in 13 turns and our next GP in 15 turns @ Princeton right now, 90% GS/10%GM at Zophos' MMing.

In my mind, the SE economy, at its foremost, is one based on low tech rates, and tons of Scientists, to produce happy little Great Scientists. With that in mind, I went round the cities.

I MMed Princeton to cut out the merchant and hire 5 GSs total.

It's at it's happy limit, so i stagnated it to get this GS out quicker. We gain one turn on Paper, now due in 12. However, that’s at our urrent sci (70%), we'll be broke in 3 turns, so it's more like . . (adjusting tech slider) gaining 4 gpt at 50%, losing 4 gpt at 60% so more like 14 turns for Paper, while the GS will now be in 9 turns.

Let’s see what other meddling I can do.

3 GSs at Athens, GS in 16 turns

don't touch Sparta, but rearrange Sorbone. This one was, uhm…interesting…
before

With no growth

And after

editted Cambridge

MMed Cambridge for GSs

and Dartmouth must be fiddled with next turn after it's borders pop so that it can grow

With this, I think we have Liberlaism on lock down. We can get paper in 14 turns or so, save Princeton's GS to bulb most of Education, and, if the other GS really is due in 16 turns, ie, 7 turns after the first, Codeman should play till then i think, to see what he’ll bulb next, and we can all discuss options.

Also after the first GS pops, you can MM Princeton for 5 merchants if you like and up the science rate a bit, too.

Here’s the Financial Screen

a courthouse is necessary at Sparta and is advisable ASAP at all other cities but Princeton and Dartmouth

I took the liberty of making a modified save, with my adjustments. I'm not sure of the "etiquette" of that

but thought it made more sense than making Codeman go through and simply make all the adjustments again.

so, Codeman is UP NOW for 15 turns or 16 if the 2nd GS is due.

Codeman · Jun 4, 2007

will not play until tomorrow night so everyone has time to throw in thier $0.02 worth.

lukep · Jun 5, 2007

Now we have CS, Athens and Sorbone can build more farms for fast growth. It is a mandatory move.

I would not use bureaucraty right now

pigswill · Jun 5, 2007

Princeton needs Buddhism to benefit from pacifism (+15gppt

).

Sparta can build a Buddhist missionary in 5 turns.

If Sorbonne works dye and gold its worth +7 gold/turn which balances the economy.

Dartmouth will border pop next turn, might be worth sacking artist after that and start working mine to get library built. Dartmouth also needs a buddhist missionary for culture. Princeton could swop builds to WB for Dartmouth so Dartmouth can focus on building its library.

Sparta could do with irrigation so it can run some mines for added production.

Next GS adds 150 gpp required for following GS so that makes it more like 15 turns for the GS.

If we don't trade for machinery then a GS will lightbulb liberalism after education.

If we could trade CS to Bismark for feudalism (haven't tried) then we could run vassalage for subsidised units and Sparta for instance could build lvl 3 longbows to beef up our defences.

It might be worth deleting unpromoted units (archers and a warrior) and garrisonning cities with spare axes that are dossing around near Cambridge.

It might also be worth switching to HR.

Zophos · Jun 5, 2007

pigswill said:
Princeton needs Buddhism to benefit from pacifism (+15gppt ).

Sparta can build a Buddhist missionary in 5 turns.

That was my intention - I built the monastery there to allow us to make 2 missionaries (for Princeton and Dartmouth).

Dartmouth will border pop next turn, might be worth sacking artist after that and start working mine to get library built. Dartmouth also needs a buddhist missionary for culture. Princeton could swop builds to WB for Dartmouth so Dartmouth can focus on building its library.

Sparta could do with irrigation so it can run some mines for added production.

There is also a pair of workers starting to chain irrigation south from the lake near Princeton. And we'll need to chain east to Dartmouth as well.

If we could trade CS to Bismark for feudalism (haven't tried) then we could run vassalage for subsidised units and Sparta for instance could build lvl 3 longbows to beef up our defences.

Everyone EXCEPT Bismark was willing to trade either Machinery or Feudalism for Philo (and I suspect Theology, as well, though I don't think I checked it specifically). Per my trade-screen shot, Bismark won't trade either one. And he's the only one without CS right now.

Also, per my turn log, both Asoka and Churchill got CS (or at least switched to Bureaucracy) within the last 10 turns.

Codeman · Jun 5, 2007

will play/post in about 8 hours

PH07: The School of Athens

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