PH07: The School of Athens

[ruff_hi]

We can get paper in 14 turns or so, save Princeton's GS to bulb most of Education, and, if the other GS really is due in 16 turns, ie, 7 turns after the first, Codeman should play till then i think, to see what he’ll bulb next, and we can all discuss options.

The '16' in the screenshot is 16 turns at the current GPP rate assuming that the GPP limit doesn't change (ie no other GPs popped). Since you have one due in 9 at another city, that 16 is wrong (well, not correct). You will need to do some maths and work out the correct number of turns.

I would work the dyes for 2F6C instead of the forest (1F2H) @ Sorbone.

 

[Zophos]

The '16' in the screenshot is 16 turns at the current GPP rate assuming that the GPP limit doesn't change (ie no other GPs popped). Since you have one due in 9 at another city, that 16 is wrong (well, not correct). You will need to do some maths and work out the correct number of turns.

I make it (at the current GPPpt, with Pholk's MMing in place):

• GS in Princeton in 9 turns
• GS in Athens 12 turns later (21 total)
• GS in Princeton 18 turns later (39 total)
• GS in Cambridge 18 turns later (57 total)
• GS in Athens 9 turns later (66 total)

All that will change, of course, as we fiddle with specialists, but it gives a general idea. We can get at least six GSs in the next hundred turns if we choose to.

 

[Codeman]

turn log...

Spoiler :

Turn 220/660 (800 AD) [05-Jun-2007 20:48:14]
Sorbone finishes: Barracks
Cambridge finishes: Forge
Dartmouth's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 221/660 (815 AD) [05-Jun-2007 21:00:40]
Sorbone begins: Catapult (15 turns)
Cambridge begins: Barracks (5 turns)
A Farm was built near Sorbone

IBT:

Turn 222/660 (830 AD) [05-Jun-2007 21:04:58]
Cambridge grows: 6

IBT:

Turn 223/660 (845 AD) [05-Jun-2007 21:06:24]

IBT:

Turn 224/660 (860 AD) [05-Jun-2007 21:09:11]

IBT:
Civics Change: Asoka(India) from 'Slavery' to 'Serfdom'

Turn 225/660 (875 AD) [05-Jun-2007 21:10:16]
Cambridge finishes: Barracks

IBT:
Attitude Change: Hannibal(Carthage) towards Asoka(India), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'

Turn 226/660 (890 AD) [05-Jun-2007 21:11:34]
Cambridge begins: Catapult (6 turns)
A Farm was built near Cambridge
A Farm was built near Canterbury

IBT:

Turn 227/660 (905 AD) [05-Jun-2007 21:12:46]

IBT:

Turn 228/660 (920 AD) [05-Jun-2007 21:14:26]
A Farm was built near Sparta
Alhazen (Scientist) (Great Scientist) born in Princeton
Sparta finishes: Courthouse

IBT:

Turn 229/660 (935 AD) [05-Jun-2007 21:15:57]
Sparta begins: Buddhist Missionary (7 turns)

in other news...


we started the chain of farms at sparta, courtsey of irrgated farm in shaka's land.

did some scouting of asoka's land...

progress of chain farms and the culture pressure coventry is feeling...

border war with oxford is showing us to gain the rice...

also did some scouting of shaka and found more of england...

great scientist is in. he will give paper. we only 5 turns left on it. i didn't switch to beau yet. didn't remember what the team had decided so thought i would wait until paper was in. did some shifting around of citizens in sparta to get the courthouse finished and started the first missionary. during my turnset i passed a zulu missionary. left the citizen placements of other cities alone. also, i started the first 2 cats for us. built a rax in cambridge.

also, GS was completed in 9, but stopped for discussion.

 

[Zophos]

Looking good so far...

I wouldn't burn the GS just to complete 1/3 of Paper...finish it and use him for Education. That is the tech he'll 'bulb next, right?

And another GS will pop during the next players' set...

 

[ruff_hi]

progress of chain farms and the culture pressure coventry is feeling...

You don't need to farm the currently being farmed tile as the city square also spreads irrigation.

 

[Codeman]

yeah, i remembered that after i moved the first worker.

 

[lukep]

got it.

will play later today

 

[lukep]

succint report sorry.

However there was not much to

Hmm. our military is very weak. Not the time to build more
but our only life belt is good relations.

We need more workers and a horde of them. farmed a lot

Shaka wants feuds for philo which is almost even, we have paper i accept
several have already phil so not very dangerous.

meet the backward togu

1118 AD : we have another GS due in 5 turns so i create academy in princeton

in summary : build turns, we are still very weak, but i think we have a
very fair chance to liberalism.

What to take from it ? We are at the very bottom of the barrel, mostly due to unupgraded units but it is a bit difficult to pay for it now.

We could run merchants for that.

Asoka is still the one to stop

the save : http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/109490/Xander_AD-1130.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Zophos]

Since I'm paranoid about being late again, I thought I'd check and be sure...

Roster (15 turns)
Zophos >> on deck
Pholkhero >>
Codeman >>
Lukep >> just played
Pigswill >>UP NOW

 

[pholkhero]

good turns, guys.

to further pick at Ruff's nit, Codeman, you could've even farmed that grasstile instead of the plains you chose since you'd get the higher food yield from it. Just a friendly tip

I also wish we'd discussed what to use that other GS for, Lukep; he was burned on the Academy without any consensus or even much group input on the issue.

I would've thought bulbing Liberalism would be best, given our game situation at this point, and we need to discuss these sort of things. That's what SGs are for, esp larger game decisions.

When the next GS pops, I think we all agree he needs to be used on Education, but chime in if you don't think so.

In either case, we all should think about what tech we should grab from it. As I've said before, I like the idea of bulbing Nat'l, with an eye towards Constitution, the Statue of Liberty, and Cavalry to unload on Asoka with, maybe co-opt half of his empire. A map might be nice to get (don't know if we're stille xploring India as I think Codeman indicted he was doing).

What does everyone else think about the Liberalism sling?

Roster (15 turns)
Zophos >> on deck
Pholkhero >>
Codeman >>
Lukep >> just played
Pigswill >> UP NOW

 

[Zophos]

I also wish we'd discussed what to use that other GS for, Lukep; he was burned on the Academy without any consensus or even much group input on the issue.

I would've thought bulbing Liberalism would be best, given our game situation at this point, and we need to discuss these sort of things. That's what SGs are for, esp larger game decisions.

When the next GS pops, I think we all agree he needs to be used on Education, but chime in if you don't think so.

I had expected we'd use the first two GS's to get Education and Liberalism. The Academy isn't BAD, per se, but I'd rather have waited 'til we had Liberalism locked up, just to be sure.

In either case, we all should think about what tech we should grab from it. As I've said before, I like the idea of bulbing Nat'l, with an eye towards Constitution, the Statue of Liberty, and Cavalry to unload on Asoka with, maybe co-opt half of his empire. A map might be nice to get (don't know if we're stille xploring India as I think Codeman indicted he was doing).

What does everyone else think about the Liberalism sling?

No question in my mind - Nationalism, followed by Constitution for the Representation civic (and a big boost to our bpt). Cavalry and the Statue will be nice, too, but Representation is a HUGE win for us in this variant.

Also, let's not forget about tech trades. Once we have Liberalism locked up, I suspect we'll have a lot of trade fodder to throw around. Philosophy may be old hat, but Paper and Education will still be hot items - and we DO want to have Machinery when we finally go to war.

We may also want to consider if/when to swap to Nationhood and do a round of drafting.

 

[Codeman]

to further pick at Ruff's nit, Codeman, you could've even farmed that grasstile instead of the plains you chose since you'd get the higher food yield from it. Just a friendly tip

i was thinking the plains would give the hammer and sparta was being used more in the direction of production, but forgot we needed to grow to get there. i see the logic in what you're saying. thanks.

 

[pigswill]

Got it. Educ>Lib>Nat sounds pretty straightforward. Where to go after that? Options include democracy beeline, chemistry/steel, rifling. Representation from Constitution sounds good; after that I'd go for chemistry for grenadiers which is more accessible than rifling; also we don't have horses; we might be able to pick them up in trade but we don't have any of our own.

 

[lukep]

I also wish we'd discussed what to use that other GS for, Lukep; he was burned on the Academy without any consensus or even much group input on the issue.

I would've thought bulbing Liberalism would be best, given our game situation at this point, and we need to discuss these sort of things. That's what SGs are for, esp larger game decisions.

burning a 1500+ GS on what was left of education (<800 ) would have been a waste of it.
storing it had no sense either as another was due in 5 turns, before education was finished.
And Academy should almost always be the first or second GS (this was the third i think) in capitol. +50% science is nothing to sneeze at .

Really, this was a no-brainer

 

[pigswill]

We got liberalism and did some trading.

Spoiler :

Pre-turn. Changed princeton to WB, sparta to missionary to help dartmouth get established. Fiddled round some tiles to promote growth. Noticed we had a dye farmed so thought I'd build a plantation instead.

T1. 1136.
Athens market>forge.

T2 1142 zzz

T3 1148
Dartmouth lib>granary

T4 1154
GS in Princeton, start another.
Hannibal circumnavigates.
Sparta Budmis>forge

T5 1160.
Education>Liberalism. GS donates 2440 beakers, 6 turns, research 60&#37;.

T6 1166.
Ankhor Wat bidl.

T7 1172
Cambridge CH>market.
Clams connected.
Rice connected.
Dye plantation finished.
Cancel fish for clams deal.
cancel dye for 6gpt
Get fish for 6gpt instead.
Cancel Bismark rice for ivory.
Get new deal with Bismark: horses +10gpt for dye,ivory.
Shaka: Education for machinery, music, map, 20gp.

T8 1178.
Shaka says don't trade with dat hippy Asoka; declined.

T9 1184.
Dartmouth becomes Buddhist.

T10 1190.
First to Liberalism. Pick Nationalism. Start constitution.
Bismark: Music, education for gunpowder, theology, map, 250gp
Tok: Meditation for 40gp.
Ch'ill: Education for 80gp .

T11 1196.
Ch'll: Gunpowder for guilds, map, 80gp .
Revolution: Barbarism to Bureaucracy (progress?). One turn anarchy.

T12. 1202.
Hanny: Liberalism for engineering, drama, map, 100gp.
Tok: gift him corn to improve his disposition, didn't work (can be cancelled later).
Research 70%.

T13 1208.
Asoka switches to free religion (he got liberalism on his own).

T14 1214.
Bismark: liberalism for banking, map, 170 gold.

T15.
Aska builds majid shrine.
Bismark: liberalism for optics, map, 20gp.

End of set.
Three turns from next GP (92%GS,8%GE).
Next GS will bulb PP. GS after that will bulb chemistry if we don't pick up astronomy first when it would bulb scimeth.

Map of the World:

Tech Trades (we've caught up (for now)).:

Budget report:

From Bureau of Statistics:

From Foreign Office:

1220ad Save:http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90414/Xander_AD-1220.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Zophos]

Good turns, pigswill. Glad to see we're caught up, techwise. Now, it's time to get our army on, and go get us some territory. Frightening to see how small we are compared to everyone else.

Downloaded the save. Will play sometime this weekend - probably tomorrow night.

 

[pigswill]

I'm thinking that it might pay to wait until we've got some decent units (?grenadiers); with representation and nationalism we can draft 2 units from five cities very quickly; 10 drafted grens and some upgraded troops would be a good starting point. The next question would be who to target.

 

[Codeman]

that was a good set pigs

 

[pholkhero]

i see the logic in what you're saying. thanks.

That's what I figured, but with all those hammers all ready, getting more food to work more hammers is great!

burning a 1500+ GS on what was left of education (<800 ) would have been a waste of it.
storing it had no sense either as another was due in 5 turns, before education was finished.
And Academy should almost always be the first or second GS (this was the third i think) in capitol. +50% science is nothing to sneeze at .

Really, this was a no-brainer

Well, as I said, I wish this was discussed as a group. I, like Zophos, thought we were going to go Education with it, and then Liberalism with the next. However, as we now have Liberalism, that point is moot. However, the fact remains that I want major game decisions such as war/peace, what to do with GPs, civics, etc, to be group decisions, even "no brainers." I'd rather there be too much discussion than none at all.

I'm thinking that it might pay to wait until we've got some decent units (?grenadiers); with representation and nationalism we can draft 2 units from five cities very quickly; 10 drafted grens and some upgraded troops would be a good starting point. The next question would be who to target.

That sounds good. I like the idea of using a GS to bulb Chemistry, but would want to actively pursue the next ASAP. After Constitution, should we use the coming (hopefully) GS, and go after Printing Press? Or go straight for Mil Tradition to build as many cavs as possible whilew we have that horse trade going??

We got liberalism and did some trading.

oh..and good turns

 

[Codeman]

...group decisions, even "no brainers." I'd rather there be too much discussion..

thank you. i need it.