PH09: The King and We

[Simon_c]

However, Sally is at annoyed, so he'd never be pleased with us, and we'll get the bonus from Biz whenever we declare.

Ahh, yes, probably wouldn't have made much difference then, especially as Sally is could be the target after Quin

Figuring out the diplomacy, knowing and influencing everyone's attitudes is definitely one of the weaker sides to my game.

Actually, I'm finding that the SG boosts the level of my play quite a lot. I'm guessing it's because there's so much more thinking time than playing time....

Maybe we should encourage bismark or ram to go after Salldin next, then join on his side. If we need to take a chunk out of Bismark anyway.....
Or is that just crazy talk still ?

Oh, and we need to shift our EPs over to someone else. No point putting them into winston now.

 

[GreyFox]

Cancel all governors ... I hate them.
Woke two fortified workers.
Declare on Qin.

Redeployed troops from east to west. And start moving our uber stack north. I hope i am fast enough before QSH throw the tower ...

Do you realized Gandhi is no longer alone in BtS? He and churchill can start the Bald Men Club now.

You gotta be kidding. The same turn we learn it. And vassal don't make demands. Most of all, I am really happy about our relationships right now.

Alas, just when the uber stack reach the doorstep of one city, QSH raised the white flag:

Where do we go from here? We can brace ourselves for an eventual three to four front wars with Bizmarck and his vassals. Or, we could try to out tech him. I think we have pretty good science rate even at 30%.

>>> The Save (1840 AD) <<<​

 

[pholkhero]

@ simon: sally is already biz's vassal so that's out, and now he's got qin. [OH! and i already moved the eps, i think.]

@ fox: good turns; too bad about all the out of work governors (for things like "grow", i find they're usually worth it; course i have trouble beating monarch, so . . . )

For the future, we have two options, as you say: peace and war. Peace=consolidating our holdings and teching away, making sure Biz doesn't get too much more land/people (and there's no guarentee that we won't be next anyway). War=we could go after Ramesses, the only free civ left, i think, though his relations with biz are pretty good. Free religion may help with this. I think we vassalize rammy, and then plan on taking out biz it ain't a win if you don't win big, right?

greyfox just played; beserks is UP NOW, crotazzo on deck

 

[berserks01]

Hey Crotazzo, can we swap again? Thanks.

@pholk: Maybe we should make the swap permanent so I end up playing on the weekends instead? Just a thought. Thanks.

 

[pholkhero]

a swap is fine, but if you can only play on weekends, then if your turns come up durng the week, i'll swap you guys myself ~ if that's fine w/others. That way, we won't waste time with the swaps and all that.

also, speaking of weekends, I will be OoP from 12/8-12/10, back late that night, so i'll be open for business on the 11th.

Crotazzo UP NOW; beserks on deck

 

[Crotazzo]

i will have to ask for a skip until 12/12... Big exam coming up at college. sorry
aither way.. i'm excited to see how this game turns out as we reched the wekest part of my play, and that is modern war... i always loose at that ones

 

[pholkhero]

Okay, crotazzo is OoP, and beserks needs a swap ~ simon or negy (who should be back today), if you can grab it and play, please post a got it and go with it~

Roster
pholkhero >> just played
GreyFox >> just played
beserks01 >> needs a swap
Crotazzo >> OoP until 12/12
Simon_c >> UP NOW?
Negyvenketto >> should be back today, UP NOW?

 

[Simon_c]

I'm about 50/50 for playing tonight. If I'm going to, I'll post a gotit before starting.

What's the goals now ? Build up the economy and produce the most modern units we can at the old capitol and the main production city and send them to the ram/quin border ?

 

[pholkhero]

I think that should be it, unless we'd rather turtle up for now, tech for a bit, and then head for more modern war or a space race (though I don't think we can beat Biz to space, but who knows? ) Anybody else have any thoughts??

 

[berserks01]

If Simon can't pick it up tonite, I can play tomorrow.

 

[negyvenketto]

I'm back, just missed this thread last night. Need some time to catch up.

 

[berserks01]

Alright, I've got it. Playing in a bit.

 

[berserks01]

A basic quiet builder's turnset for me.

Took a quick tour of our cities. MM a little in a couple of them to work better tiles, shuffle some troops to the front line, and switched our capital to produce troops not gold.

We produced a settler in London ... I don't it mentioned anywhere what his plans are. So, I decided to put him here

we miss out on the sugar since we already have 1, but we also miss out on 3 desert tiles so it's a good thing....I think.

And the very next turn, they wanted this

Inconsiderate peons!!! They must be taught to learn their places!!

Replaceable Parts comes in

and I head for Rifling next. Some rifles would be good defenders everywhere.

Another Apostlistic vote inconclusive ... mainly because we don't want to give him the win.

We have a revolt at a city bordering Churchill which I forgot the name of. I moved some more troops there to help keep revolt at bay.

If we are going to declare, I think we should be in position to do so in a couple of turns once we have enough cannons on the front line.

 

[pholkhero]

nice turns, though are we sure we want to go after Ramesses? I haven't heard what anyone else thinks about this ~

imo, we should go for the domination win here. This war w/Ramesses is going to be a decisive point in this game as we may get dogpiled by Biz and his lackeys, so we'll just have to play it by ear and make the best of things. I think we should aim to vassalize egypt, and then when the time comes for the Great War, it'll be a buffer zone ~ maybe they'll even throw their units at egypt.

another thing to think about for the GW ~ quickly eliminating QSH and Sally's cities ~ hopefully this will cause them to break free from Biz and vassalize to us.

Roster
pholkhero
GreyFox
beserks01 >> just played
Crotazzo >> OoP until 12/12
Simon_c >> UP NOW
Negyvenketto >> on deck

 

[berserks01]

another thing to think about for the GW ~ quickly eliminating QSH and Sally's cities ~ hopefully this will cause them to break free from Biz and vassalize to us.

Does it work this way? I always thought you need to take enough cities from their "master" to get them free and then force them to vassalize to us.

But on the war front, I'd suggest going after Biz as well. At least it'll remove all external influences from our side of the map. I only add to the stacks that have already formed at the border of Qin and Ramses, so it should be easy to relocate them.

 

[pholkhero]

@ beserks, I thought so, but i may be wrong ~ don't they have a trigger that if they lose 50% of their lands, they jump ship b/c the master can't protect them??

also, some thoughts on MM after looking at the save:
* we should try to grow as fast as possible in all cities so perhaps go through and make sure we're working as much food as possible
* we could run 2 scientists at Tlaxcala instread of working those sea tiles there
* @ tenochtitlan ~ what do we think of the globe there for more whips?? also, it shoudl build to WBs to net those whales
* i notice that Paris has 57 happies from the army
* I also notice that Biz doesn't have Steel ~ this really makes me wonder if we should attack him now, while we have a good edge ~ our grennies and canons should be more than match for this rifleman. The only thing we'll have to contend with will be the vassals, but maybe not for too long. (it's a dang shame Berlin is so far from us ~ literally the OPPOSITE end of the map!)

 

[berserks01]

@ beserks, I thought so, but i may be wrong ~ don't they have a trigger that if they lose 50% of their lands, they jump ship b/c the master can't protect them??

No idea. I thought that if their land >= 50% of their master's land, then they can break free of their master. But I have not idea about them losing 50% of their own land.

also, some thoughts on MM after looking at the save:
* we should try to grow as fast as possible in all cities so perhaps go through and make sure we're working as much food as possible
* we could run 2 scientists at Tlaxcala instread of working those sea tiles there
* @ tenochtitlan ~ what do we think of the globe there for more whips?? also, it shoudl build to WBs to net those whales
* i notice that Paris has 57 happies from the army
* I also notice that Biz doesn't have Steel ~ this really makes me wonder if we should attack him now, while we have a good edge ~ our grennies and canons should be more than match for this rifleman. The only thing we'll have to contend with will be the vassals, but maybe not for too long. (it's a dang shame Berlin is so far from us ~ literally the OPPOSITE end of the map!)

I did some MM of the cities to work as much food tiles as possible but still have a couple working hills here and there to at least get *some* production going. Feel free to change however you see fit.

Just make sure to take out those cities of his vassals in our land so we only need to concentrate on one front and not have to worry about incursions.

 

[Simon_c]

I'll be playing in an hour or so. Not looked at the save yet.
I think if you go into an AI vasalized to you, it tells you when they would leave, so we can see what it would take to break of the other two.

 

[pholkhero]

I did some MM of the cities to work as much food tiles as possible but still have a couple working hills here and there to at least get *some* production going.

I've been working on this assumption over the past few weeks, but i'm not sure it's right, so . . .

in my mind, if I want a build FAST, its more efficient to work as many hammers as possible, even to the point of stagnation or (some) starvation, rather than growing as fast as possible, to be able to work MORE hammers (if that makes sense) ~ e.g., you found your city, and want a warrior ~ do you grow ASAP to work more tiles or, say, work the plains hill, not grow, and get the warrior out right-quick ~

same with growing ~ if you want to grow fast (even if you want something built at the same time), in the end, its faster to grow to the desired population level ASAP, and then work the production aspect.

I'm not even sure the above makes sense to others, but that's what i'm working on. sure, there are times when you MM for both, etc, but, imo, for our situation, build times are of no consequence (except units of course); we should be aiming for growth above all ~ again, not sure if this is the right assumption, so feel free to set me straight.

All that being said, it was only 1 or, at most, 2 tiles in cities that were not working Max Food, and most likely were put there by the AI at growth ~ i wasn't sniping at your MM

 

[GreyFox]

On vassal getting free: yes, there are three ways to get free. (1) vassal refuse to give a resource -- resulting in war; (2) vassal reach/exceeds 50% of master's land and pop; (3) vassal loses more than 50% of the land it had when the vassal contract came into effect. Trigger (1) will result in war. Trigger (2) + (3) is peaceful break-up.

On growth vs hammer: it sure depends on what you need right now, and relative time to grow. If it is gonna take 20 turns to grow, might be better off getting the production built than waiting for it to grow if you need whatever that is being produced fairly urgently).

--