PH09: The King and We

Crotazzo · Nov 22, 2007

the farming was done to get irrigation to our former capital and to that forested grassland near lyon.
I chopped everything i could, as we probably wont buil any new cities, and we need to pump units like crazy.

Please grey, comment a little more why the HE was a :smoke:

move, i think it is the best place for it at this time, as its the best producing city we have and with 2 settled gg

GreyFox · Nov 22, 2007

IMHO, the former-capitol produce units using the whip, not pure production. No matter how strong the production is, it can't beat 90 hammers every 3~5 turns (needed for 2 pop to grow back). Settled MI still works when you whip

So, it might be better to select a second city for HE bonus. This way, we can have 2 cities producing units. It also save the Globe for former capitol, relieving it of the need to add a cheap MP every 4~5 whips (thanks to Aztec's altar, it is not every 2~3 whips).

--

pholkhero · Nov 22, 2007

would HE also affect whips?

even if so, i tentatively agree w/fox on this one. even if the HE does go w/whips, will it add enough to outweigh the benefit of a 2nd city producing units??

anyway ~ what's done is done ~ we'll jsut have to whip the city more often, or just a tad less if there's a whole lot of overflow. +50% bonus to a 90 shield whip would be nice for our medieval units.

Simon_c · Nov 23, 2007

Crotazzo said:
the farming was done to get irrigation to our former capital and to that forested grassland near lyon.

Are you sure it will get there, isn't the tundra hill in the way.
EDIT: And anyway, our former capitol is on a freshwater lake isn't it ?
so no need for irrigation :smoke:

there I think ;-)

I chopped everything i could, as we probably wont buil any new cities, and we need to pump units like crazy.

Ahh,
I'd have figured we can get a couple more cities in somewhere to cottage up some grassland. Maybe non on this map.

Anyway, I think we needed more roads to help the troops move around for now.

Simon_c · Nov 23, 2007

T0) 344 1620.
Before we sign a treaty, we kick a couple of isolated units, and ask Quin to attack Hastings. Hopefully that will keep Winston distracted.

So, we try our luck with any tech old Winy boy has,

sadly, not joy for any of them. So we settle for some cash

I think Winston will be focusing his efforts on getting london and Nottingham back. so i'll put a bluk of the troops there, drop the kinghts back, and get some spies to the front line.

I've stopped a lot of worker actions. i'm not sure why woods were being chopped around 4 squares from texcoco or why we've got farms being build outside of the BFC of anywhere, and no crops that need irrigation. Please tell me if I've missed the reason :-)

We need more roads to link up our new cities, and help the forces move around some more.

I put a stable in the build queue for technochitwhatver, so we'll get some pinch knights out there. (didn't see the two GGs there, still we're getting ext9 cavs out of there now)
If we can pick up optics, we'll get another 2H and 3C from techwhatver too with a couple of whailing boats.

I'm guessing it's time to stay the whip hand now. we need to grow our cities don't we to get the economy moving ? Maybe all except techwatever.

I figure we need some more infrastructure in the new capitol to make use of the beurocracy bonus. So I've added a forge and market to the build queue. As we move back towards 50/50 we want a uni there too.

I do the rounds of the cities, and pull teh newer troops from the back lines to the front lines.
I add a market to Rheims build queue.

I think out score and economy are week because we're wipping so much when post people have stopped by now.

1) Turn 345: 1625
Winston's stack has moved south now. If I was guessing it woudl be camping outside of london. The spy shows that dover just has a skeleton force left. We'll kick his but there when he's not looking. :ar15:

Notingham needs hinduism there to push back the english
culture. 7 turns + travel for one from paris

2) Turn 346: 1630:
Winston's stack seems to be chasing out Quin's troops.
I set all our EPs onto winston.

3) 347: 1635
A random event benifiting the germans.

Winston's stack has disapeared. I'm sending a spy after it.

4) 348 1640
The stack is off to the west somewhere.
:whip: in former capitol.

5)349 1645
Humm, the english and arabians are getting closer by marriage!

6: 350 1650
A vote in the palace.

I did some more selling of resources.

Found Winston's stack just east of cantebury. Not sure where they are going. the spy keeps tailing them.

7 351:
Ram discovered liberalism, then adopted free market. maybe he picked economics ?

Not sure where Winston's SOD has gone.

8 352:
Look who commes knocking.

I guess he's bottom of the stack right now, but it will piss our friends off. I say no.

I moved some old troops back to the old capitol for MP duties.
London comes out of revolt, and I whip it down so it's not starving. I didn't realize you could whip, swap the queue, whip, swap the queue etc. So I'm down to pop 5 there (it's not starving !)
I may have been :smoke:

though. If I'd done a temple first, it would be on +4 cult per turn, 4 for a boarder pop (so -4 pop) and probably just enough land to get out of starving with aroun 7 ppl not the 5 it has now.

Oh well.

9 353:
I whip in techwhatever, and overflow into a bank to boost our treasurey. I still don't understand this overflow correctly though. I thought I did, but it went from 3pop to 1pop on 1 turn. Even thought I thought it should have been left with needing > 45 hammers.

10 354: 1670
Looks like winston is busy beating quin up.
Winston will give us around 700 gold for education. Is it worth it ?

I move some troops ready to take dover, there's only 3 (very well promoted) defenders there.

If we do atttack, winston's main forces are in Quin's back yard, so they could hit our western cities. I've routed a few troops over there, but it makes our stack in london week to attack.

I Mmd the ex capitol to bring the bank in in 7 turns not 9, that's costing us about 6gpt though.

10 turns, that will do I think.

It really is looking like we've lost this.....
Unless....

If we can get Bismark to pleased with us, get churchil to be #1, and build the UN, we might have a shot at diplomatic. What's eveyone think ?

Save:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/111964/PH09_AD-1670.CivBeyondSwordSave

Roster:

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pholkhero · Nov 24, 2007

lost . . . hmmm . . . i'll have to take a look at the save to be sure, but i wonder if we could focus on dom, and whip our way to victory. will see. i don't think we can sit back and win, though. We need to take it by the reins and just keep rolling. Whip a little, use conquest money for deficit research--it's positive reinforcing, too; every new city we take is one more for unit-whipping, more units, more cities, more cities, more units

Perhaps something like once every 15 or 20 turns, we whip most of our cities for units? or whip them all on a continual basis. Monty's known for one thing: massive stacks of obsolete units :yup:

that could be us :lol:

in the hands of a human, it should really work!

Simon_c · Nov 24, 2007

Does the whipping get less and less useful as the units get more expensive though ? Although, the production bonuses seem to help the overflow, whipping with 1 turn left on the knight in the old capitol would have left me with 1 turn to get an other knight too. Two knights every 3 turns seems OK.

If we can get a 2nd city with the steal-works and a GG military acadamy in there, we could get two cities cranking out whipped troops.

Maybe it would work. It just didn't seem worth whipping str8 units up against the str12 grens that Winston had. How many would it take to take down a city ? 5 to 1 ? I don't think even with whipping we can afford that.
And the knights we have now will be obsolete as soon as winston has redcoats.

I guess I'm just feeling at a loss for where to go next on the game. We can probably sneak a couple more cities from Winston while he's off beating Quin up.

I'd be very surprised if we get domination whilst we are so far behind in tech. But you never know... It would be fund to try....
We should get a city up north to take up that unoccupied land while we are there.

Taking Winston and Saladin should give us approaching 50% I guess.. But it will take us a while to pump the population after whipping so much.

pholkhero · Nov 24, 2007

As I find time, I'm trying to read over another SG i started ("Waiting for Huitzilpochtil") to see how we made a go of the :whipped:

army

also we should remember we have 3 capital city-sites now. This should help us as well.

pholkhero · Nov 25, 2007

Okay, I only played 9 turns because they were a hair-raising 9!

I started off, but taking a good look around. Okay, i don't think it's as bad as we think. We're only at 0.9 compared to Churchill's power, even though hes got some grenadiers moving around.

I also decided that we should keep the war going. But was at first was going to wait . . .
I saw England making some progress in China:

But then I noticed only 2 defenders in Dover :devil:

On the next turn, our spies found the English SoD, heading our way

~ excitement abounds ~ where will it end up?

On the same turn:

Nice!

In the midst of this, our people needs more butter!

The war basically took up most of my turns, and on the homefront, most of the builds. However, we should keep spreading a) Hinduism to our cities for the happy faces, and b)Taoism to foreigners for an extra 3 or 4 gpt from the shrine.

Meanwhile, the Chinese took back Kassite:

Our armies were moving both on Warwick and Canterbury.

Down at Warwick, our agents preceded us!

Which helped a little:

At that point, the stack of grannies and muskets were heading east, bypassing the other stack I had up near Canterbury as bait.

Their goal was London:

I knew we wouldnt have much of a chance to withstand that attack there, so I hurried up my plans in the west. Another agent took tried to take down the defenses @ Canterbury, but failed, so it was up to the ol grunts.

I weakened them up with ALL of our siege equipment there (lost 5!!), and still didnt have enough to take the city. So, since China was now able to invade England once we DoWed them, Qin had units around Canterbury, so I held off for now, hoping he would take out 2 or 3 defenders, which would be just enough to take it.

On the IBT, Churchill annihilated the stack I had in London, but couldnt take it in one turn. I crossed my fingers, and it was my turn again:

Yes!! Now, Churchill was ready to talk peace . . . and he wanted LONDON for it!! :eek:

No deal.

I settled for this:

Since we wouldve lost London on the next turn anyway; it had a mace, a knight and 3 trebs in it

I razed 2, and took 1, and now Churchill is below us in score

Here's how close we are to Dom!

Almost a third of the way there! :goodjob:

Spoiler :

I don't think we've lost this, but we'll need ot keep conquering. If we can trust Churchill, we can go after Saladin before Bismarck keeps it all for himself. Otherwise, I think we should hold pat to what we've got from Churchill, and build up a stack to take those eastern cities ~ i've marked a battle plan on the map, but forgot a pic ~

thoughts?

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Simon_c · Nov 25, 2007

A good turnset. So we've taken out Winston's SoD and kept London ? Great.

I guess the reason I'm so pesimistic on this war is I'm not used to fighting a war with a large number of out of date troops.

In conventional war, I'd be warning of how we've to got make Winston a non-entity before he gets his redcoats on line.

And we've got to make sure we can scare bismark off before he gets panzas, if we're not at nomination by then :-)

GreyFox · Nov 26, 2007

Got it, turns played, report 2morrow.

GreyFox · Nov 26, 2007

A quiet building turnsets. Keep the whip on our former capital ... the rest of the empire can should only whip infrastructure (overflow to units).

A good event occurred:

Welcome home, soldiers, and have fun with the ladies to grow our cities.

Bismarck went for Diplomatic Win ... nah, I don't think so.

Printing Press is in, I select Chemistry next.

Only to be treated with this bad event:

Meanwhile, some news flash:

I am uncertain whether we should declare soon, or wait a bit. I am certainly uncomfortable with fighting superior units, but not unaccustomed to. That seems to be a recurring theme in PH series :lol:

(remember "Eight Angry Men?"). Knights are the best counter we have to grenie, so keep pumping them. Ofcourse everything will change once Churchill reached redcoats.

But I am also interested in the quest, so I slipped in a few colloseums

. The quest should be fulfilled once the current builds of colloseums complete.

>>> The Save (1730AD) <<<

pholkhero · Nov 27, 2007

A nice set. though we may not like it, i think war is still the answer here. Churchill is now below us in power, despite his grenadiers, adn he'll only get harder once he reaches redcoats. I say we build up a sizable stack for the east, make sure we're adequetely defended in london (imo, that's where he'll strike back), and go for it. W/any luck, he'll suicide his stack @ London, and we can push down to come up behind them @ York :devil:

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berserks01 · Nov 27, 2007

I can't pick this up til Friday. Anyway I can get a swap?

Crotazzo · Nov 27, 2007

got the swap. i can play and report tomorrow probably.

Simon_c · Nov 27, 2007

pholkhero said:
I say we build up a sizable stack for the east, make sure we're adequetely defended in london (imo, that's where he'll strike back), and go for it. W/any luck, he'll suicide his stack @ London, and we can push down to come up behind them @ York

He could slip in via the west too as he's been fighting with quin there, but I agree, that kind of move will take out some of the back line cities, and slow him down more.

pholkhero · Nov 27, 2007

@ simon -- he *could* but they just made peace together, and I think, judging from his stack during my set and his terms for peace, the AI really wants to get london back. He had that large stack of grennies/muskets out near Chartres to our west, but bypassed that city (though the stack was smaller there) and continued on toward London -- which was how i was able to raze Canterbury

Crotazzo · Nov 28, 2007

This was a builders turnset.

We are escalating positions in the apostollic palace council

we lost, but it was nice to see that quin voted for us

Then we got a really really horsehockey event:

I mean... c'mon!!! destroy a town??? it takes like 150 turns to build that up!

We completed the special event, i chose the golden age!

other choices were coliseums +1

or coliseums +4 :culture:

I made this trade with quin... i know its a good trade for the ai, but we couldnt trade with enyone else, and we need the greannies asap, before winston gets redcoats (greannies still have bonus vs redcoats right?)
Now we have optics, we can build whailing boats!

I set research towards steel for cannons. If we can prevent war until we get them we can probably take winstons best cities and vassal him in the next battle.

Another event

And that was pretty much it.
I upraged a few maces to greannies in london, We have a nice stack of units, but we are short of stong guys. If we can reach cannons, and upgrade a dozen maces we can easly win the next war.
We have a spy next to london checking winston capital and his stack, and i couldnt notice it getting any bigger. He might be gathering forces in the deep of his kingdom though.

The save: View attachment PH09 AD-1750.CivBeyondSwordSave

pholkhero · Nov 28, 2007

I think we've broken the back of winston, and jsut need to finish the deed. Steel and canons should be the start of the campaign, as you say. Even redcoats will bow before them, esp if we load up on canons and attack with them first, maybe a 2:1 ration for siege. Fox is right; in PH02, we survived on emperor with our canons, taking out infantry before we won. Ahh, a good game and win :yup:

I still think we have a good chance at this game via dom or some form of backdoor diplo.

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berserks01 · Nov 28, 2007

Alright, I see it and will pick up, play, and report by Friday evening.

PH09: The King and We

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