Phaedo02- Rage_Against_The_Machine

Nice work. It's getting exciting now. :D

The roster:
Phaedo
Bucephalus
Elephantium UP
Simple Monkey Honoured Observer and alternate
Smart AWOL
Norton II On Deck
Commando Bob
 
Nice work. It's getting exciting now. :D

Indeed.

Before the next player takes it, there are things that we need to confer on.

If we get it right, this game is ours for the taking, but to get it right will need us all to be singing from the same hymn sheet, particularly in terms of passing on information from the active player to the next regarding troop movements etc.
 
Following on from my previous post, I have some observations/ suggestions to pass on based on my experience of the last set:

Bombing ships:

The Greek navy is huge; I suggest we ignore Battleships and Destroyers that are pounding the coast - they are not a threat, only a nuisance. They won't miss any that we destroy but we will miss any Bombers shot down.

I suggest we restrict our attention to those escorting Carriers and Transports; these are typically convoys of four, three escorts and a Carrier/ Transport, although I did sink one Transport only guarded by a single Destroyer.

Using this method, I successfully sank two Carriers and two Transports.

Recon:

At the beginning of each turn, use the stratically positioned Fighters for recon; it's very effective at pinpointing targets before they get too near, and allows effective re-positioning of Bombers.

Wherever the Bombers are stationed, make sure that they have SAM's to cover them from enemy Bombers - remember, they know where our units are.

Also make sure the city is garrisoned with two MI's to guard against Marines.

Keep our core cities garrisoned for the same reason.

Keep building Armies in Osaka; they will get through from time to time, and Tank Armies and Arty will be the most effective method of repulsing them.

I suggest we keep the Capital for building SS parts (I'm currently building the SS there); there is no need for us to build several parts at once, and we need to be building military units constantly, particularly Bombers to replace the inevitable casualties. In between SS parts I suggest Tactical Nukes; anytime that we get a suffuciently large number of ships in a nine square area, they could be used to great effect - there is one such convoy off the NW coast at the moment, so maybe we could switch production somewhere and rush one in the pre-turn.

Although it would be nice to drop a few ICBM's on their core, realistically it would be a waste of shields, so I advise against building them.

I suggest we continue to squeeze out Cruise where we can - they proved to be effective going in after Arty, sinking a Destroyer/ Transport convoy.
It would be of great value to the incoming player to be provided with a dotmap of known Greek positions at sea; I will provide one such for the next player.

I should add that our Armies remain unmolested, and will almost certainly continue to be so - Greece is down to it's last fourteen Bombers since I sank the Carriers, and they will never again have them in enough quantity to be a threat.

All of their efforts will now be concentrated on Japan; all we have to do is meet that challenge, and build our ship as parts become available.

Our Spy is still in place, but I think it goes without saying that we should restrict our attempts to stealing techs that give SS parts, or techs that are a prerequisite to them.

We should use our Spy as soon as such techs become available (assuming we have the gold) because it's inevitable that we will lose him at some stage, so the sooner that happens the longer we have to replace him with another; all the time he sits there doing nothing he is vulnerable to a sting operation.

There is at least one tech available to us now (Superconductors).

It is almost certain that WW will require us to change govt. in the next set; as soon as we need 20% on the slider, we are better off as a Monarchy.

I suggest we never allow our gold to drop below a couple of thousand; there will be times when we urgently need to rush units.

One such that springs to mind is if they get a successful beachhead; we cannot possibly garrison all of our coastal tax farms, and sooner or later Marines will take one. If it is sufficiently reinforced to be a problem (as it well might once they have MA) we could rush a Tactical Nuke and drop it on the city.

Remember, Tactical Nukes can use the the RR system.

That's all that springs to mind at the moment.

@ Elephantium: I'll have a dotmap made of known enemy positions, by this evening.
 
. . . . Greece adds SS Docking Bay to their ship; . . . . Greece adds SS Cockpit to their ship. . . . Greece adds SS Life Support to their Ship;. . . . Succesfully steal Space Flight;. . . . The ******** Nuked us!. . . . Successfully steal Satellites - now we can build ICBM's. . . . Greece adds SS Fuel Cells to their ship . . . .


lurker's comment: Now that's an exciting turnset!
 
@Elephantium: When you open the save you will see Greek ships highlighted off the coast of the island to our East; there are still two Carriers there, one heavily damaged.

The Western Ocean:

In the far NW there is a large flotilla of Greek ships, comprising Battleships, Destroyers and transports; I have marked their approximate location.
You should be safe from any landings this turn, so you may want to relocate the Bombers to cover the area; however, keep them inland and further South because of their Nukes.

One thing I forgot to mention:

I didn't mobilize because I remembered that you cannot build the Appollo Project when Mobilized, so don't do so.

Once it is built we can Mobilize because we can build SS parts when mobilized

Edit: I've also left the Tank Army too close to a Northern City for comfort - I suggest you move it out of Nuke range on the pre-turn.




Spoiler :
Western_Ocean.JPG
 
So far:


Pre-turn:

I move the Northern army down to the area near Entremont to avoid nukes. With a start, I notice that we left Matsuyama, Desert Fish, and New Nagoya undefended - if any of those territories fall into Greek hands, they can start work on the Stasis Chamber immediately. I move some units into those cities to provide at least SOME defense against this.

I also pillage the Uranium near Desert Fish/New Nagoya - they're too lightly defended, and if Greece happens to attack them (unlikely), we're sunk.

I try to steal a tech. Our agent fails, but he's not caught.

IT:

Greece uses one bomber vs. our Uranium squatters, and the rest go after our two Battleships escorting the transport stack N of the old Dutch island. They lose 1 Bomber and 3 Destroyers; we lose both BBs and 2-3 transports.
Kyoto: SAM->MI

Turn 1 (1705 AD):

Kill 4 Transports, 7 Destroyers, a Cruiser, and a Battleship. I used up our Cruise missiles, though.

Reassign specialists in Omi (stop a riot) and in Entremont (conscript an extra MI for anti-Marine ops)

Fail another steal. Not caught.

IT:

We shoot down 3 enemy bombers.
Groningen takes population losses! I think we also lost an improvement, but I'm not sure which one. It could have been a SAM battery, Commercial Dock, Courthouse, or Granary.
Amsterdam: Bomber->Bomber
Groningen: Bomber->Bomber
Tokyo: Tank->Tank
Nagasaki: Bomber->Bomber

Turn 2 (1710 AD):

Lose 2 Bombers.
Sink 1 enemy Carrier
Sink 4 enemy Destroyers
Sink 1 enemy Transport
MM Tokyo for 2-turn Tanks!
MM and conscript in Omi - we need the extra forces in our Uranium towns.

IT:

We shoot down another Greek bomber.
We lose a Transport.
Greeks land on our Uranium-island.
The Hague: SAM->Bomber
WilliesHillyBilly: Tank->Tank
Tobacco Farm: Bomber->Bomber
Green Fields: Bomber->Bomber
Sapporo 2 riots! Strange, I MMed to prevent a riot last turn.

Turn 3 (1715 AD):

Kill the Greek invaders of Dutch Island. We lose one tank.
Sink six Destroyers, a Carrier, and a Transport.

Break for the night
===================
 
So far:


Pre-turn:

I move the Northern army down to the area near Entremont to avoid nukes. With a start, I notice that we left Matsuyama, Desert Fish, and New Nagoya undefended - if any of those territories fall into Greek hands, they can start work on the Stasis Chamber immediately. I move some units into those cities to provide at least SOME defense against this.

I also pillage the Uranium near Desert Fish/New Nagoya - they're too lightly defended, and if Greece happens to attack them (unlikely), we're sunk.

I like the way that you're thinking here, though you are crediting the AI with far too much intelligence.

Having pillaged the Uranium - very thorough - you needn't waste defenders on them.

You will need the defenders for when they do make landings.

In case you are not familiar with Modern Age warfare, I'll give you a few pointers.

Firstly, they will land a full compliment of units - it's not like the earlier Ages where they will sail half way around the world to drop off a warrior - typically a mixture of MI/TOW and Tanks.

The way to handle them is to wear them down over two turns - don't waste Tanks fighting full strength units.

First, move MI defenders to any towns which they can reach - in the North this will be 2 or even 3 towns. Then move Arty to the nearest town and soften them up; then re-base the Bombers to within reach.

If you make sure the towns are adequately defended, they won't attack on the following turn; instead they will move towards the nearest undefended town.

Hit them with the Arty again, then the Bombers. If there is anything left, send in the Tank Armies.

I suggest you rush a couple of Armies as soon as you have the Tanks to fill them.

The key point is not to panic; they do not have Battlefield Medicine, so they won't heal in our territory. You can afford to take 2 or even 3 turns to deal with them, just make sure to defend what they can reach in one turn, and wear them down with Arty until they are red-lined before attacking.

Until we build up our military we must conserve our forces this way.

Also, we are probably a bit lacking in Arty; see if you can spare a city to produce a few.

They still have 5 Nukes, and they may have a few more in the pipeline, started before we got to their U.

If they waste them on Northern towns, don't worry, but if they hit a core city you must get the Workers on the job, first to clear a tile, then to mine and RR it. It takes surprisingly little time to restore them to their former glory.

The biggest problem is with population loss, so in this event, switch some tax farms to Worker production for joining to the city.

The city will also lose up to 50% of it's buildings; I suggest you replace them in the order of Factory/ Coal Plant to get the shields back up (making it quicker to replace the rest), followed by Temple/Cathedral (to allow you to rebuild the population), then Market/ Bank.

We are a bit short on Workers, so use any built to reclaim the land before joining them to the cities.

Be sure not to keep Armies in or near cities when not in use; there are spaces in the core to keep them safe from nuclear fallout.

Don't base Bombers in a city with resources within it's radius - they tend to target those cities with Nukes.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

Edit:

If it becomes necessary to switch govts, you will have to re-mm all of our tax farms - an unenviable task, but necessary, unfortunately.
 
Say, how do you all feel about razing Shanghai? Even one army is enough that the AI won't attack it in the field, so we could chip away at Greece's defenders with 1-2 armies while still keeping the Uranium secure.

It would force Greece out of Democracy pretty quickly, and it would stop his unit production for a few turns. It may be a good option for the next turnset.
 
Say, how do you all feel about razing Shanghai? Even one army is enough that the AI won't attack it in the field, so we could chip away at Greece's defenders with 1-2 armies while still keeping the Uranium secure.

It would force Greece out of Democracy pretty quickly, and it would stop his unit production for a few turns. It may be a good option for the next turnset.

It's not at all in our interests; all we need to do is sit tight and let them research for us.

It doesn't matter to us when they change out of Democracy; it doesn't matter how quickly they get all the techs - without U, they cannot win.

We just need to weather the storm for a few sets; the more Bombers/ Tanks we build, the easier it will be to repel them.

And once they've fired off their remaining Nukes, there will be no more.

This game is in the bag - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
IT:

We get bombed at Izumo 2, New Suo, and the Uranium near Pharsalos (where we shoot down one of their bombers).
Kyoto: MI->Nuke
Tokyo: Tank->Jet Fighter
Haarlem: Cruise->Cruise

Turn 4 (1720 AD):

Sink the destroyers in a transport stack near the city where we got nuked. The transport itself is redlined when I run out of bombers in that area :(
:eek: They have an ICBM! This will hurt.
On the bright side, they have no Marines anymore, and they're down to 8 bombers. They do have 19 Jet Fighters though.

We steal Superconductor for 3400 gold.

We're at 258 of 146 allowed units, so...
MM Sado for growth - it's next to a lake, and we could use the extra unit support. Likewise for Phaedoville, Sugar Pond, Sugar Lake, New Matsuyama, Matsuyama 2, New Kagoshima, New Hakodate, Satsuma 2, Buce's Chokepoint, Tusker's Riverbend, and Nara.
MM Whalewatchers for income, stopping growth.
After the growth of these towns, we should be able to get back up over 1000 gpt.
MM Arnhem for 20-turn Cruise missiles.
Switch New Izumi to Cruise Missile (20 turns).
Switch New Echigo to Cruise Missile (30 turns).

IT:

EEP! Amsterdam, The Hague, and Tobacco Farm all get nuked, one by ICBM!
Greece lands a stack next to Kyoto. They're getting serious.
Amsterdam riots. I cycle through the cities, MMing for happiness. Actually, Amsterdam is the only one where I have to make adjustments. Huh, I thought that nukes pushed more WW than that.
Izumo: Bomber->Bomber

Turn 5 (1725 AD):

Tobacco Farm->Factory
The Hague->Factory
Amsterdam->Marketplace
Pillage the Uranium near Ise and Matsuyama - we need more defenders elsewhere!
We kill all the (arty redlined) invaders near Kyoto, at the cost of one Tank.
MM Tusker's Riverbend to slow growth (it's now size 7).

Greece is down to 3 Tactical Nukes.
We're down to 842 gpt :(

==================
 
Sounds like you're having fun!

Ride the the storm, mate; they can hurt us but they can't beat us - that ICBM was started before we got to the U; once they let off the next three Nukes, they will have shot their bolt.

Rush another Army if you have the Tanks to fill it.

The drop in gpt is because of the three core cities being nuked - population drop, tiles polluted, Markets and Banks destroyed - just put the Workers to work reclaiming the land, rush some Workers from the farms to help, then join them back to the cities; the gpt will pick up every turn.

You've copped a tough set, mate - but it will get easier.
 
Turn 5 continued...

At 10% lux, even the capital needs 3 clowns to prevent riots. It's revolution time.
...cue 20 minutes of cycling through cities to avoid riots. Sigh.

IT:

They nuke Osaka! :mad: It still has rax, Cathedral, Coal Plant, Stock Exchange, and MA. I'm going to have to switch from Army to Factory, wasting 80 shields - fortunately, the landings aren't that tough, so we're not in dire need of the extra army.
Speaking of which, 4 Infantry and 2 Tanks land next to Edo. Our arty will get some practice!

Turn 6 (1730 AD):

Move troops. Redline a transport stack, but I only have three bombers in range to sink the escorts. Many bombers have been re-based, so we'll be able to do more next turn.

We're at +290gpt in anarchy!

IT:

Echizen takes a nuke. Greece only has one more nuke to spend on us.
A Greek tank kills a single defender in Kyoto, and the rest of the stack moves to follow it.

Turn 7 (1735 AD):

We are now a Monarchy. Our royal artillery redlines the stack next to Kyoto, and one of our elite royal tanks produces a leader!
Switch Osaka to Factory, wasting 80 shields - we need the production capacity more.

I spent the rest of my time this evening working out the details of Bede's Holiday. We end up at 719gpt, but some further tweaking might improve that.

Break for the night.
====================
 
You should continue to rush Workers, particularly from anywhere with a full food box; if you let them build for one turn they only cost 36g to rush, and it is a priority to get those cities up and running again.

With just the one nuke left, Green Fields will probably be the target. They are targeting resources, and GF has U in it's boundaries. It might be worth switching GF's build to Destroyer and see if you can hunt down the sub - it won't be far away because tacticals have a limited range.
 
Fun stuff! Haven't looked at the save yet but it's a great read:D
 
I've just checked the save; everything is about as good as we could expect it to be - well done; just a couple of things to add:

In Kagoshima, if you temporarily switch the citizen working the beef to the mined grassland, it will give Apollo Program in 3 turns instead of 4; a temporary food defecit won't hurt.

The workers currently roading around Tobacco Farms would be best ganged; the quicker we can get working tiles, the better, rather than waiting and having them all ready to work at once many turns down the line. Prioritize the BG's.

Now that Kyoto has been hit, we need even more Workers than you had been building; Kyoto is the priority for their attentions.

Oh, and I suggest no more Spy missions until Alex will talk and we can check what he has.



This has been a rough patch but we are almost through it; that last Nuke is their last shot at hurting us.

It would be fantastic if you can hunt it down with a Destroyer; you can have one out of GF in 2 turns if you switch builds now.

Edit: Don't forget to note the known positions of any Greek shipping on your last turn, so Norton starts with good intelligence.
 
Just in case anyone is having any doubts as the Nukes rain down, here are the stats:

As soon as the Apollo Project is complete (5), we can already build 6 SS Parts; we require just 6 techs to enable the rest - Ecology, Nuclear Power and Miniaturization as gateway techs, then Synthetic Fibres, The Laser and Robotics for the Parts.

If our Spy does his job properly, I reckon we've got 2 more sets each.
 
I've just checked the save; everything is about as good as we could expect it to be - well done; just a couple of things to add:

In Kagoshima, if you temporarily switch the citizen working the beef to the mined grassland, it will give Apollo Program in 3 turns instead of 4; a temporary food defecit won't hurt.

The workers currently roading around Tobacco Farms would be best ganged; the quicker we can get working tiles, the better, rather than waiting and having them all ready to work at once many turns down the line. Prioritize the BG's.

I agree, but I was thinking that getting a road on those tiles ASAP would make the rest of the cleanup easier. I plan to clump them as they finish their roads.

Now that Kyoto has been hit, we need even more Workers than you had been building; Kyoto is the priority for their attentions.

Oh, and I suggest no more Spy missions until Alex will talk and we can check what he has.



This has been a rough patch but we are almost through it; that last Nuke is their last shot at hurting us.

It would be fantastic if you can hunt it down with a Destroyer; you can have one out of GF in 2 turns if you switch builds now.

Edit: Don't forget to note the known positions of any Greek shipping on your last turn, so Norton starts with good intelligence.

Roger that. I think it's worth building another destroyer up the coast from The Hague, as well - IIRC, a nuke launched from a coastal square near The Hague could hit Green Fields.
 
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