Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
Another option would be to pillage our Uranium, then reconnect it once we're ready to start the last SS part.
Phaedo02- Rage_Against_The_Machine
- Thread starter Phaedo
- Start date
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
I'm not sure how that would help
What I'm concerned about is that when a resouce becomes exhausted, it appears somewhere else; that 'somewhere else' might be Greece, in which case they would be able to complete their SS. If we razed Athens they would have to start from scratch, buying us time to either finish ours or move our Armies to the new source.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: IIRC, when a resource is exhausted, it reappears on the same continent. So if you lose a resource due to exhaustion, it'll appear somewhere else on your continent. 
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment: IIRC, when a resource is exhausted, it reappears on the same continent. So if you lose a resource due to exhaustion, it'll appear somewhere else on your continent.
I'm not at all sure that that's the case, but even if it is, there are two sources in Greek territory which we are currently sitting on; there is nothing to prevent them being exhausted and reappearing elsewhere in Greece
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: Oh, what I thought you meant was that you were afraid that one of your resources would exhaust and reappear on Greek Territory. Well, AFAIK, a resource can only be exhausted if it connected. Since, well Im sure you guys disconnected it, it is not connected, it cannot be exhausted and appear somewhere else.
Phaedo
Emperor
What an interesting possibility to pop up. I'll get on the ICBM builds. I know nothing about exhausting resources. I'd be nice to have a definite answer before starting but the ICBMs will be our insurance.
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
I'm not sure how that would help
What I'm concerned about is that when a resouce becomes exhausted, it appears somewhere else; that 'somewhere else' might be Greece, in which case they would be able to complete their SS. If we razed Athens they would have to start from scratch, buying us time to either finish ours or move our Armies to the new source.
I read somewhere that resources could only become exhausted if you're working them on the IBT. If we have them pillaged, we don't have to worry about that.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
lurker's comment: IIRC, when a resource is exhausted, it reappears on the same continent. So if you lose a resource due to exhaustion, it'll appear somewhere else on your continent.
I can say with certainty that this is wrong; earlier in this very game our Salt exhausted then reappeared in China - on the other Continent.
Since nobody can give a definitive answer on whether disconnected resources can disappear, we must assume that they can; not to do so would be to invite disaster, and we've come too far to lose like that.
Edit:
Can you remember where you read this?
Nontheless, it would make sense to keep our U disconnected until we need them; IIRC, it is only required for one more SS Part (and Nukes of course, but only to initiate their build).
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
I tried to find a source for the info about the resource depletion, but I couldn't find anything definitive.
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
Okay, will empirical evidence do the trick?
I created a custom scenario, set Oil to be available with Warrior Code (and set the depletion probability to 1), and placed two Oils next to my starting location. I also put a road on one of them.
Settle city, end turn. Oil depletes.
The other one sits there.
Build a road on the other Oil, pillage it with a warrior. Oil sits there.
Build a road, this time don't pillage. Oil depletes.
Conclusion? If we pillage our Uranium, it won't deplete.
I created a custom scenario, set Oil to be available with Warrior Code (and set the depletion probability to 1), and placed two Oils next to my starting location. I also put a road on one of them.
Settle city, end turn. Oil depletes.
The other one sits there.
Build a road on the other Oil, pillage it with a warrior. Oil sits there.
Build a road, this time don't pillage. Oil depletes.
Conclusion? If we pillage our Uranium, it won't deplete.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Hell, man, that is so clever! Excellent work.
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
Well, the idea originally came from a post I read here on civfanatics several months ago. I'm not sure who gets original credit - that's lost to the mists of time - but I'm glad it's something we can use 
lurker's comment:
Guys:
I've been following this one from the beginning. Exciting to watch you move toward victory in a challenging game.
I'm really glad to see that you're discussing the depletion/reappearance issue. I'd hate to see you lose a great game to such a random event. I've been worried about this for a while and had twice written a post on the subject then deleted it. I was afraid that having a lurker tip you off to such a critical strategic issue would somehow taint the game.
Now that you're talking about it, I'd offer a couple of thoughts:
(1) Elephantium -- In your testing, did you leave the road connected to the second resource for an IT before you pillaged it? Padma has a post somewhere in the archives referencing a test where resources would deplete even after pillaging. It seemed that once they were connected to the trade network, they were then forever subject to depletion. I suspect the reconciling factor between the seemingly conflicting tests may be that trade networks are recalculated on the IT. Thus, you may not be safe just because all uranium is pillaged.
(2) If you do decide that you're not safe with simple pillaging, I'd be very watchful of Greece starting star wars. If you only build three warheads, there is a 12.5% chance that they'd all be stopped by SDI. Combine that with the fact that Greece is now researching every advance for you. Their odds of getting an SGL are not bad and that SGL just might be used for SDI if it came at the right time.
(3) You may not want to do it for style points (and because you don't want to slow Greece's research), but I'd think about nuking and razing Athens if they manage to research all three precedent techs for Integrated Defense. It's hard to imagine them doing that without you stealing all spaceship techs and having your parts built, but it's worth thinking about in the unlikely event they take a strange research path.
[Edit: For a human player, going for Star Wars before all the spaceship techs would be the smart play, i.e., research everything up to one turn short of a single part, set up the best possible nuclear defense and throw everything at the recapture of a uranium source for one turn. When the uranium is hooked up, science can be turned back on and pre-builds switched to the uranium parts. On the IT, when the last tech comes in, the pre-build can be switched for that too. Then launch can occur on the next turn. But we know the AI could never do that.
Then again, in yet another case of the AI being unable to see the way to win, Greece has already missed its golden opportunity. Rather than nuking your cities, it should have saved its nukes and used all of them on itself -- on the uranium sources on its continent -- which it could then have easily retaken and held for long enough to start the missing parts.]
Good luck. It's been a great game to follow.
Guys:
I've been following this one from the beginning. Exciting to watch you move toward victory in a challenging game.
I'm really glad to see that you're discussing the depletion/reappearance issue. I'd hate to see you lose a great game to such a random event. I've been worried about this for a while and had twice written a post on the subject then deleted it. I was afraid that having a lurker tip you off to such a critical strategic issue would somehow taint the game.
Now that you're talking about it, I'd offer a couple of thoughts:
(1) Elephantium -- In your testing, did you leave the road connected to the second resource for an IT before you pillaged it? Padma has a post somewhere in the archives referencing a test where resources would deplete even after pillaging. It seemed that once they were connected to the trade network, they were then forever subject to depletion. I suspect the reconciling factor between the seemingly conflicting tests may be that trade networks are recalculated on the IT. Thus, you may not be safe just because all uranium is pillaged.
(2) If you do decide that you're not safe with simple pillaging, I'd be very watchful of Greece starting star wars. If you only build three warheads, there is a 12.5% chance that they'd all be stopped by SDI. Combine that with the fact that Greece is now researching every advance for you. Their odds of getting an SGL are not bad and that SGL just might be used for SDI if it came at the right time.
(3) You may not want to do it for style points (and because you don't want to slow Greece's research), but I'd think about nuking and razing Athens if they manage to research all three precedent techs for Integrated Defense. It's hard to imagine them doing that without you stealing all spaceship techs and having your parts built, but it's worth thinking about in the unlikely event they take a strange research path.
[Edit: For a human player, going for Star Wars before all the spaceship techs would be the smart play, i.e., research everything up to one turn short of a single part, set up the best possible nuclear defense and throw everything at the recapture of a uranium source for one turn. When the uranium is hooked up, science can be turned back on and pre-builds switched to the uranium parts. On the IT, when the last tech comes in, the pre-build can be switched for that too. Then launch can occur on the next turn. But we know the AI could never do that.
Then again, in yet another case of the AI being unable to see the way to win, Greece has already missed its golden opportunity. Rather than nuking your cities, it should have saved its nukes and used all of them on itself -- on the uranium sources on its continent -- which it could then have easily retaken and held for long enough to start the missing parts.]
Good luck. It's been a great game to follow.
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
I set the depletion rate to 1 - i.e. "if it's connected, it depletes this turn."
Then, during my tests, I connected/pillaged one Oil, then reconnected it the next turn - and it didn't disappear until it was actually connected.
lurker's comment:
@Elephantium:
Sorry for my lack of clarity. What I was suggesting was this...
You connected and pillaged the second oil on the same turn. It never went through an IT where it was connected. That should have been clear to me, as with depletion rate = 1 it would have depleted if you had not pillaged it on the same turn you connected it.
What I'm wondering is whether the resource needs to be connected through an IT for the game ever to register it as connected for depletion purposes.
Because Padma had different test results than you did (and we can't know the prior test conditions as they weren't outlined in the post), I was trying to figure out what was different.
If you were to set the depletion rate = 5 (or something similar), connect the resource for one turn, pillage it on the next turn, then run through a series of turns to see if it depletes, that would answer the question. (Of course, on the 20% chance that it depletes on the first IT, you'd have to start over.)
At depletion rate = 5, you could run it through 31 turns and, if it does not deplete, have 99.9% confidence that pillaged resources won't deplete.
The basic thesis of Padma's post was that once it is registered as being connected to the trade network, it is always subject to depletion. I'm just wondering if it has to be connected through at least one IT for this to connection to be registered.
Then again, Padma could have just been wrong.
End of lurker intrusion and back to your regularly scheduled tech thefts...
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Not at all; that's what lurkers are for.
Style points be damned - I'd nuke Athens for the hell of it.
No, seriously, you have a valid point, one which I have already considered; I believe that they will build Synthetic Fibres before Integrated defence, but if they do not I agree with you - wrecking their SS would be the logical thing to do.
Much of our success in this game has been about knowing the AI's limitations and exploiting them.
Thanks, it's been a great game to be in.
And thanks for taking the time and trouble to post your thoughts.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
You guys are gods
But, sadly, gods that get way too into their game half-way through.
I was too lazy to read the part where you conquered the rest of your continent without visual aid
Pity, you missed the most exciting bits.
Phaedo
Emperor
It was a busy weekend but I'll get to it in a day or two. I am interested in the resource thing though. We are planning to keep the uranium pillaged except for the turns we need it right?
