Phaedo02- Rage_Against_The_Machine

[Elephantium]

New plan: Skip me until further notice. Civ now crashes after running for 5-10 minutes

 

[Norton II]

Looks like I'm up again, then. I'll play tomorrow or Sunday.

 

[Norton II]

@Buce: How did you want to split up the invasion force? I notice you've got all the new transports automatically heading toward Amsterdam. I was thinking we ought to send 10 transports, 6 armies, and 30 SAMs to Hakodate in the northwest to land near Pharsalos. That way, we could take out both sources of uranium at once.

 

[Bucephalus]

@Buce: How did you want to split up the invasion force? I notice you've got all the new transports automatically heading toward Amsterdam. I was thinking we ought to send 10 transports, 6 armies, and 30 SAMs to Hakodate in the northwest to land near Pharsalos. That way, we could take out both sources of uranium at once.

Sorry, Norton; I left a rally point on that I had set for SAM builds.

You are absolutely right, one jumping off point will be in the NW, the other in the SE if memory serves - whichever offers the shortest distance between us and the Uranium.

 

[Norton II]

Sorry, Norton; I left a rally point on that I had set for SAM builds.

You are absolutely right, one jumping off point will be in the NW, the other in the SE if memory serves - whichever offers the shortest distance between us and the Uranium.

Thought it was something like that--I'll clear the rally point and start moving some of the transports toward Hakodate.

 

[Norton II]

Just finished the set. I'll post the writeup later, but here's a summary for now:
-Greece is back in democracy and has computers (and 152 mech infantry!). They've also built one marine.
-We have 22 transports (2 to reinforce the island, but that might not be necessary), 7 armies, 53 mobile SAMs, and 64 infantry (48 for our armies). I've left all armies empty except the one that already had 4 infantry in it. IOW, all that's holding us up now is the armies--that and waiting for the transports to arrive at Hakodate. Should we start rushing armies every other turn?

 

[Bucephalus]

Should we start rushing armies every other turn?

What's the cost, do you know?

 

[Norton II]

What's the cost, do you know?

1344 gold. We're making 1232 gpt right now, so that would leave us 1120 gold every 2 turns. We have 9458 gold, so 10 turns from now, we'd have around 15058 gold (our income might change a little).

 

[Bucephalus]

1344 gold. We're making 1232 gpt right now, so that would leave us 1120 gold every 2 turns. We have 9458 gold, so 10 turns from now, we'd have around 15058 gold (our income might change a little).

My initial instinct is to say yes; let's give it some thought before Phaedo plays.

Can you upload the save?

 

[Norton II]

Here it is: View attachment Rage_1600AD_Norton.SAV

 

[Phaedo]

Wow. 152 MIs and they're starting to build marines. Looks like the crunch is coming.

I got it but I think a short break to assess the situation is a good idea. I'd like to have a good idea of exactly what I'm going to do in my set before I start.

 

[Bucephalus]

On reflection, I think my opinion is that we should stick with the original timetable, for three reasons:

1) Gold; once we land our forces on Greek soil, it won't be long before war weariness sets in and we have to change to Monarchy, and then our gpt goes down considerably. Currently we can make enough for a spy mission every 3 turns; under Monarchy it would be every 5 turns. I think building up our treasury under Republic for the next twenty turns or so is desirable, if not necessary.

2) We need Computers for MI, IMO; we can't attempt a steal for another 10 turns without our WW returning. Assuming the worst (as we must) and we fail at that time, we would face another x number of turns of war.

We could not begin to try our invasion while at war; we would need to sit tight and bomb any Greek shipping that came near. We could then make Computers part of the peace deal (in the same manner as we did it before).

At that stage, we could upgrade our Infantry, load our Armies and launch our invasion; losing what is left of our rep is not an issue - it's the last time that we would give them peace.

3) Another 20 turns gives us time to build up a credible escort for our transports.

In the West, Tokyo is capable of making 4 turn Battleships; so too is Tobacco Farms in the East, if it was mm properly. It can swap a citizen from working the coastal tile to work the BG currently being worked by Groningen (giving exactly 50 shields), which in turn would need to work a tile currently being worked by Amsterdam.

Each fleet would then have a five Battleship escort; we may even choose to rush them for a few more.

Our other cities could concentrate on building Bombers for homeland defence, and maybe a few Jet Fighters for recon, so we can hit their shipping before it gets close.

We can afford to be patient; even if they have begun their SS by the time we're ready, it is of no concern - they need all ten parts.

 

[Bucephalus]

Wow. 152 MIs and they're starting to build marines. Looks like the crunch is coming.

Don't be fazed by the numbers; they will rigidly keep 3 defenders in every city - and Greece has a lot of cities.

Once we land, our Armies will not be attacked by anything other than Bombers, unless they sustain considerable damage by that bombing, which is why we are taking so many SAM's.

The Marines are a pain because we can't possibly defend every coastal city; however we can defend all the cities that matter - if they take a tax farm it's no big problem, unless we were still in Republic, then it would just hasten our WW.

And with recon and sufficient Bombers, they might not get even reach us.

We have enough Arty to deal with landings, but I would like to see maybe 20 Tanks as well.

We just need to keep building up our military for homeland defence while we are completing our quota of Armies.

Edit:

And don't forget one very important thing: when we get their Uranium, only one of us can build Nukes; we can take out their Aluminium with Nukes, so we won't need to defend against MA's.

Come to that we can take out their Oil, Rubber, anything we damn well like.

We have no cause to rush, IMO. I say we should go when we are properly prepared.

 

[Norton II]

A little late but here's the writeup:

Preflight:
-MM tax farms
-rush army
-pillage extra luxes
-move unit to blue cross in Buce's screenshot, move another unit over uranium
-rush settler in Yokohama
IBT: Kyoto MS>MS (3); Osaka army>army (7); Tokyo transport>transport (2); Yokohama settler>MS (50)
1: need a few more infantry, so switch WHB to infantry
IBT: Amsterdam trans>trans (4); Kago MS>MS (2); WHB inf>inf (2); TF trans>trans (3)
2: land settler and 5 infantry on red cross
IBT: The Hague trans>trans (10); Tokyo trans>trans (2); GF trans>trans (3)
3:
-settle Buce's Red Cross, build wealth
-rush army for 1088 gold
IBT: Kyoto, Kago MS>MS (3,2); Osaka army>army (7); Groningen trans>trans (4); WHB inf>inf (2)
4: Alex built a marine!
IBT:
-Tokyo, TF, Naga trans>trans (2,3,5)
-Greeks build Hoover Dam(n!)
5:---
IBT: Amsterdam, Edo, GF trans>trans (4,10,3); Kago MS>MS (2); WHB inf>inf (2)
6:
-switch 3 transports to infantry
-rush army for 1088 gold
-Alex has computers but no mech inf yet; Greeks are in anarchy (now what government could they possibly be switching to? )
IBT: Kyoto MS>MS (3); Osaka army>army (7); Tokyo trans>inf (2); Haarlem, Kobe trans>arty (8,9)
7:
-Alex now has 152 mech inf; still in anarchy
-switch all but 1 inf to MS
IBT: Kago MS>MS (2); Groningen, TF trans>MS (4,3); WHB inf>MS (2)
8: Greece now in democracy (never woulda guessed! )
IBT:
-Tokyo MS>MS (3); GF trans>MS (3)
-Alex starts SETI
9: rush army for 1088 gold
IBT: Kyoto, Naga MS>tank (3,5); Amsterdam trans>tank (4); Kago MS>MS (2); Osaka army>army (7); Izumo trans>bomber (10)
10: notice Haarlem is size 12 with a huge food surplus and pitiful shield output, so mine 4 plains and switch build to courthouse

Notes:
-Alex built one marine that whole set. I don't know if he's going to build any more, but he's building a lot of TOW infantry (the AI seems to like that unit).
-It might be good to build some airfields in the hills and mountains up north so that we can reinforce Dutch Island if the Greeks threaten our cities there. We don't want them getting that uranium.

 

[Bucephalus]

-Alex built one marine that whole set. I don't know if he's going to build any more, but he's building a lot of TOW infantry (the AI seems to like that unit).
-It might be good to build some airfields in the hills and mountains up north so that we can reinforce Dutch Island if the Greeks threaten our cities there. We don't want them getting that uranium.

I think the best thing to do with Dutch Island is to reinforce it now; Walls would be good, maybe Civil Defence too. I don't think there would be much chance of Greece getting a city down (which it would need to do to access the U, then build a worker, then hook it up, build a harbour or airfield) but the Island was the main focus of their attacks last time, and there is no reason to believe next time will be any different.

We should ship out some SAM's and swap them with those Flak which can go back to the mainland for upgrading.

Alex going to Democracy is good news - he's less likely to initiate war without provocation.

If we are agreed on waiting, Phaedo should continue the military build-up, building appropriate units once we have our invasion force complete (excepting the Armies, for which we need to wait).

On the subject of Armies, I think it would be a good idea to build a couple extra to fill with tanks; if - when - Alex lands troops, it is likely that they will be TOW infantry, and they will be a lot easier to take out with Tank Armies especially once softened up with Arty and Bombers.

@ Phaedo: Don't forget to mm Tobacco Farms for 50 shields; if you have any doubt about how to achieve this, let me know, I'll post some screenies.

Once Phaedo is done our 20 turns of peace is up (make sure 'renegotiate deals' is off).

On turn 1 of my set we can try a steal on Computers; what happens from there depends on whether we are successful or not, but it seems likely that either way the invasion will happen on Norton's set.

One other thought I've had:

I'm thinking that just before the fleet sails, it might be an idea to hook up some extra lux's to sell to Alex, just to make it less likely he'll DOW while we're at sea.

Obviously it will mean breaking this deal, which you may consider unethical; I personally have no such qualms - the AI breaks deals all the time - but it's something you may want to consider.

 

[Phaedo]

I'll try to have a close look at the save tonight but it will probably be tomorrow before I get to it.

 

[Norton II]

I'm thinking that just before the fleet sails, it might be an idea to hook up some extra lux's to sell to Alex, just to make it less likely he'll DOW while we're at sea.

Obviously it will mean breaking this deal, which you may consider unethical; I personally have no such qualms - the AI breaks deals all the time - but it's something you may want to consider.

I don't have any qualms about it, either--it doesn't involve any exploits or anything, and there's a chance he might declare anyway.

 

[Elephantium]

Update: I reinstalled Windows and Civ, so I can take my next set.

 

[Phaedo]

Update: I reinstalled Windows and Civ, so I can take my next set.

Cool! Welcome back. Do you want to switch to get back into it or just take your regular place after Buce?

 

[Elephantium]

Thanks

Either way works for me, but I do really want to play again before this game ends!