[GS] Phoenicia Discussion Thread

[Prima Italia]

Is the Harbour the first district to have two unique versions of it? The implications could be great for newer civs as DLC or an expansion pack.

 

[Onii-chan]

It depends on your map. If you're on an island or archipelago map, you have to rush to shipbuilding to meet other civs. That can be a pain. I might go sailing->pottery->writing with Phoenicia to get the campus down quickly.

True I guess but then it's a bit of a "win more" ability. Basically if you're playing on a land map then the bonus is unnecessary whereas on Island Plates it might be good. Since it's a naval civ to begin with and Phoenicia will prefer archipelago-like maps... well it basically only has a use in the setting where Dido is already at her strongest anyway. So it makes her even more situation/inconsistent/map-dependant in terms of how strong she might be I think

 

[Ziad]

Cothon gives you a science bonus.

I think that's Free Inquiry. You can see the Golden Age.

 

[bite]

Okay, well I am going to think on Phoenicia a bit more, but at it is 230am I will do it in the morning ... well the more morning morning than the now morning

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Be better if that was a special ability linked to Hannibal as a GG. Not even the Carthaginians made a regular habit of it.

Now that you mention that it would be cool if they implemented that for him with the new mountain tunnel feature.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

It's not implicit in the wording, but I mean extra trade routes give you science too, right?

 

[iammaxhailme]

Don't forget, Firaxis sometimes rebalances civs after release.... notably, changing the requirements for Polders shortly after R&F was rleased. Maybe we will see some changes here

 

[Amrunril]

This was the civ they forgot in R&F. One that actually makes interesting use of the loyalty mechanic. Jumping capitals to new lands to defensively hold onto new cities or jumping it closer to other civs in an aggressive loyalty flip manner. Very interesting mechanic, but it totally an RF civ, has no place in the GS mechanics.

I'd actually say that this use of R&F mechanics follows a common pattern. A new edition or expansion will add a mechanic and some civs that use that mechanic in a fairly straightforward way. Then, the next expansion will add civs that interact with those mechanics in a more complex or outside the box way. City states and religion in Civ V are good examples of this. The base game added city states and civs with straightforward bonuses to city state influence (Greece) and yields (Siam). Then, the expansions added civs that could gain influence in unusual ways (Sweden) or absorb city states peacefully (Austria/Venice). With religion, G&K included civs with early faith bonuses (Celts/Maya) and an extra belief (Byzantium). Then, BNW included Indonesia, with a UB that generated massive amounts of faith but came too late to be of any use in founding a religion. I think this is a great design choice, because it gives both player and developers more time to figure out the nuances of new mechanics than they'd have if civ abilities always had to be matched to the corresponding expansion's mechanics.

 

[Jkchart]

I was excited about Phoenecia, but it just didn’t deliver that enthusiasm for me. I think we hyped it up way to much considering that we expect the best for last. It is good, but I am way more excited to play the Ottomans’s and, maybe even Hungary, and I’m a peaceful player. Even the artwork didn’t fascinate me, although the Cothon looks nice. I was expecting Dido to be closer to majestic for some reason, but it looks definitely that it came out of Gorgo’s initial sketches. But I’ll definitely play it and that could change my mind as to how much I like it. It’s not Canada by any means, not even close. I don’t feel like playing Canada in any foreseeable future.

I think it’s okay because we all expect different things to suit what we want so not every Civ will appeal to us. For example, I don’t like a lot of the warmonger civs to play, but my game needs a villain for my Civ, so why NOT have civs that you may not want to play? If every Civ appealed to me equally then what’s the point of making different ones or even trying out ones that force me to play differently and get out of my comfort zone? (I still hated playing Alexander - felt like cheating and was massively unfun to me to optimize his bonuses because I prefer building my own things ) so it’s okay to not like Phoenicia for the same reasons I might be excited by it. I love the possibility of actually trying a Carthage-like strategy focused on coastal control.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

They give bonuses to harbors/lighthouses/shipyards in addition to commercial hubs/markets/banks.

I don't like this at all. It's a bit lopsided, and the harbor is kind of a multifunctional district.

I'd rather they create a new "diplomatic" city state type that gave harbor bonuses.

 

[Ziad]

Like I'm genuinely curious if Phoenician ex-capitals keep their Palaces

Palace yields are no joke.

 

[UWHabs]

It is a bit disappointing to not have the "allowed to hire mercenaries from other civs" bonus like we had hoped, although I guess Hungary already got the bonus to levying troops so might have been too much to have 2 civs with a bonus like that.

They'll run into a lot of similar problems that other naval-based civs run into, but the loyalty bonus is really nice in that you can simply spam settle every coastal space on your continent, or on the largest continent. Getting God of the Sea will be huge for them, as will finding and allying Auckland. If they don't get either, then managing them to actually get enough production to be useful will be big, although they're also going to want to rush to shipyards and the double adjacency harbour policy card.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Like I'm genuinely curious if Phoenician ex-capitals keep their Palaces

Palace yields are no joke.

I doubt it. Autocratic legacy would be too good.

 

[pgm123]

I think that's Free Inquiry. You can see the Golden Age.

Oh, I think you're right. That's a bit disappointing, but I guess I know which Golden Age bonus I want.

 

[Ziad]

I doubt it.

A city dropping in amenities and housing isn't something that Firaxis would do. I think they keep it.

I hope someone asks this in the stream.

 

[Kaan Boztepe]

If there is no coastal watertile buff , the whole civ bonuses are still pretty useless and with sea level rise even worse than before. At least Indonesia has an UI that makes settling on coast worthwhile. Loyalty was never that big of a problem to waste a civ ability.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

https://twitter.com/sbar713/status/1090285176255586304?s=19

Sarah says that Phoenicia does have it's own theme and implies that it should have been in the FL.

 

[Ziad]

If there is no coastal watertile buff

Yeah +1 production on coastal tiles would have been nice.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

A city dropping in amenities and housing isn't something that Firaxis would do. I think they keep it.

I hope someone asks this in the stream.

I edited after you replied, but imagine autocratic legacy if there was a palace everywhere.

Of course that depends on how much it is to make a new palace.

 

[Ziad]

I doubt it. Autocratic legacy would be too good.

I mean it might be their way of leveraging the city state feel.