[GS] Phoenicia Discussion Thread

[Giskler]

Oh I know why they get it. I was hoping it was a free tech, not a eureka which you get in the first few turns in 90% of games unless you are isolated.

It should be a free tech.

Honestly, they should start with writing as a free tech.

 

[Ziad]

something that would have fit Phoenicia because it reflects history really well.

The entire civ's theme is thematically appropriate. Mass settling on coast? Bonus to all naval unit construction? Harbors? Forward settling? It's all there.

My main issues are the relative pointlessness of the Writing Eureka and the question of whether Palaces are retained in ex-capitals. Some more bonuses to coastal tiles would have been cool. +1 production comes to mind.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Oh I know why they get it. I was hoping it was a free tech, not a eureka which you get in the first few turns in 90% of games unless you are isolated.

It should be a free tech.

But for gameplay, I wish they would have gotten something that worked them towards their ships and harbor.

 

[ehecatzin]

I like how this is designed because I like to build coastal cities, but I think Phenicia is the weakest civ from GS, maybe weaker than Canada - maybe we should create a thread of GS Civs ratings?

I think the Phoenicians are kind of focused for domination, but they are not strong in other areas.

I think they will make a fine diplomatic victory type as well, with all that trade going everywhere, heck you could even bypass conquering penalties by pushing city fliping.

 

[Ziad]

But for gameplay, I wish they would have gotten something that worked them towards their ships and harbor.

I agree.. which is why I want Writing as a free Tech. Build that Campus and get those coastal techs.

 

[Duuk]

I like that 1/3 of the posts are "worst civ ever" 1/3 are "I need more info" and 1/3 are "Dido will forward settle and dominate the world so hard".

 

[Giskler]

The entire civ's theme is thematically appropriate. Mass settling on coast? Bonus to all naval unit construction? Harbors? Forward settling? It's all there.

My main issues are the relative pointlessness of the Writing Eureka and the question of whether Palaces are retained in ex-capitals. Some more bonuses to coastal tiles would have been cool. +1 production comes to mind.

Their civilization is named after their unique luxury, I just find it a bit odd to not include it when they were famous for it (and made boatloads of money from trading it).

 

[Ziad]

I like that 1/3 of the posts are "worst civ ever"

I have a feeling a lot of this is due to coastal cities being relatively weak in pre-GS. In GS the tables have flipped with much more significant bonuses to naval empires and Phoenicia is really powerful at maintaining a plethora of those cities irrespective of their location. Just don't be stupid and settle in the middle of another empire's core.

Also more direct bonuses are great but ultimately the most significant contributor to snowballing is city number. Phoenicia can drill settlers out like no other even when they scale really high in cost.

 

[God of Kings]

I strongly agree that Writing should be a free tech given that the Phoenician script is the script that ultimately created almost all other scripts used later in history (excluding those based on Chinese writing such as Chinese writing itself, Kana, and Hangul; and pre-Columbian scripts of Australia, Polynesia, and the Americas (though Cherokee and Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics are ultimately derived from Phoenician script)).

 

[Seek]

Of course that depends on how much it is to make a new palace.

100 base production. Regardless, I'm quite sure the palace is not left behind in each former capital.

I suspect most of the disappointment is relative to what could have been done with Phoenicia, based on the conversations in the speculation thread.

Not necessarily: I never looked once at that thread and I'm disappointed in the lack of exciting abilities here.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Their civilization is named after their unique luxury, I just find it a bit odd to not include it when they were famous for it (and made boatloads of money from trading it).

but Luxes grow on trees in civ 6.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Another key point is that they get 2 very early free trade routes. They're going to get to 4 trade routes faster than anyone else, and if they do send them over water, that could make for a lot of early gold, or for lots of extra bonuses to their early cities.

Also extra science, culture, and faith from running early international trade routes. Which they can do slightly more safely than other civs over water thanks to the bireme.

I agree with others that only getting a boost to writing, instead of the whole tech, seems a bit of a let down. Obviously it's a nod to where our alphabet comes from, which is why it isn't a shipbuilding tech boost. I assume it's for game balance reason and a concern that the Phoenicians not get Campuses too much earlier than anyone else.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

1: Dido changes her skin color (compared to Civ5)
2: Moving Capital is too costly
3: However, other bonuses ,as well as UU and UB, are good.

 

[Ziad]

I assume it's for game balance reason and a concern that the Phoenicians not get Campuses too much earlier than anyone else.

I suspect this as well but it's essentially a pointless bonus in practice. Even hurricane immunity would be more useful.

 

[Icicle]

The model for the leader looks great! I like the uniqueness of shifting capitals around to screw with loyalty, I can see them being fun for culture-flippers.

 

[Tinker]

What language does she speak?

 

[Phoenix1595]

My main issues are the relative pointlessness of the Writing Eureka and the question of whether Palaces are retained in ex-capitals.

See @God of Kings reply above. They invented the alphabet we now use today, so it is a little nod to that.

 

[Ziad]

What language does she speak?

Phoenician.

See @God of Kings reply above. They invented the alphabet we now use today, so it is a little nod to that.

Again it's not the concept of it but the actual impact it has on gameplay. Meeting civilizations isn't exactly difficult.

 

[ehecatzin]

I have a feeling a lot of this is due to coastal cities being relatively weak in pre-GS. In GS the tables have flipped with much more significant bonuses to naval empires and Phoenicia is really powerful at maintaining a plethora of those cities irrespective of their location. Just don't be stupid and settle in the middle of another empire's core.

Also more direct bonuses are great but ultimately the most significant contributor to snowballing is city number. Phoenicia can drill settlers out like no other even when they scale really high in cost.

Exactly, as soon as you get a government district and Cothon going you are going to pump out settlers like there's no tomorrow.

I strongly agree that Writing should be a free tech given that the Phoenician script is the script that ultimately created almost all other scripts used later in history (excluding those based on Chinese writing such as Chinese writing itself, Kana, and Hangul; and pre-Columbian scripts of Australia, Polynesia, and the Americas (though Cherokee and Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics are ultimately derived from Phoenician script)).

Honestly I'd like it as well if they started with writing, you still gotta unlock the harbor before you can actually explode your colonizing, getting there a bit faster seems like it would help a lot.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Honestly I'd like it as well if they started with writing, you still gotta unlock the harbor before you can actually explode your colonizing, getting there a bit faster seems like it would help a lot.

I'm going to guess that it was nerfed in playtesting.