[GS] Phoenicia Discussion Thread

[Ziad]

Yassssss

Let the colonization memes begin.

I look forward to give each of my city states its time to shine.

 

[Weraptor]

THE DOMINATION DENYING IS REAL, FOLKS!

 

[IvoryPavane]

While that's true, Gitarja can manage loyalty quite well on the coast because she can amass pop really fast using the Kampungs.

This is an excellent point.

 

[thecrazyscot]

https://twitter.com/EdBeach23/status/1090680733453246464?s=19

Correction: Dido's ability DOES move the original capital, affecting Dom victories and policy cards.

Excellent - Eddie B's original correction reduced the effect of moving the capital to simple loyalty, while this has far wider implications.

 

[UWHabs]

https://twitter.com/EdBeach23/status/1090680733453246464?s=19

Correction: Dido's ability DOES move the original capital, affecting Dom victories and policy cards.

Well, that makes it significantly more fun. I can't wait to have colonial taxes on my original homeland

 

[Sagax]

https://twitter.com/EdBeach23/status/1090680733453246464?s=19

Correction: Dido's ability DOES move the original capital, affecting Dom victories and policy cards.

YAAAAAASSSS

 

[Ziad]

This is an excellent point.

While it is true, it doesn't kick in til later in the game when the housing component prevails.

Kampungs are actually relatively weak early on, no stronger than fisheries in terms of growth

 

[IvoryPavane]

While it is true, it doesn't kick in til later in the game when the housing component prevails.

Kampungs are actually relatively weak early on, no stronger than fisheries in terms of growth

Agreed, the housing does certainly help though and it does allow Gitarja to keep on top of her loyalty more than your average costal Civ.

Also, moving the original capital is really excellent news

 

[Ziad]

Also, moving the original capital is really excellent news

Agreed. There was still some relevant potential in that you would be able to get colonial bonuses to your "Carthage" while also having a Palace and its bonuses there... but now you can do it literally anywhere.

 

[pgm123]

I've addressed this. The argument you're making assumes that Phoenicia gains some particular bonus from being coastal. This is not the case. If coastal cities become more attractive, Persia will make as much use of them as Japan, Indonesia or Phoenicia. Phoenicia gains no yield bonuses from being on the coast - it just gets its harbours a bit more cheaply. The sum total of their value as a coastal civ is equivalent to the Royal Navy Dockyard. On the plus side this means they don't particularly care about settling coasts if those slots aren't available, but they don't have a magic advantage just by virtue of being 'coastal' you're imagining.

Was that in one of the recent livestreams I haven't watched, or is this speculative? It will certainly be nice not to be constantly bothered by Harald telling me how much he admires my one trireme because it outclasses the rest of the world's navies put together. Admittedly I've seen some very late games in my games where coastal AIs will spam submarines, but even then they use them entirely defensively and that late in the game you mostly aren't building new units or capturing cities.

Once again this is an unjustified statement. It doesn't follow in any way that navies are more relevant because coastal cities are - that will only be the case if you want to attack them or if the AI starts building navies and actually goes on the offence with them.

The buffed coastal settling is mostly tied to trade routes. Having useful coastal cities will still be tied to harbor buildings and coastal resources.

And yes, they explicitly said in the livestream that the AI will build more naval units and we saw bigger navies. They were still beaten back, so we'll have to see how well the AI uses them.

 

[sonicmyst]

https://twitter.com/EdBeach23/status/1090680733453246464?s=19

Correction: Dido's ability DOES move the original capital, affecting Dom victories and policy cards.

Yay!!!
Whack-a-capital with Dido is real!

 

[IvoryPavane]

The buffed coastal settling is mostly tied to trade routes. Having useful coastal cities will still be tied to harbor buildings and coastal resources.

And yes, they explicitly said in the livestream that the AI will build more naval units and we saw bigger navies. They were still beaten back, so we'll have to see how well the AI uses them.

Indeed, while she may not have yield bonuses to settling there, she is the only Civ that can settle anywhere on the coast without any loyalty concerns. So while any Civ can enjoy the bonuses of the coast, Dido enjoys (potentially) the most choice locations and can spread them the most vociferously.

 

[Wizard-Bob]

Yay!!!
Whack-a-capital with Dido is real!

FUN times ahead Do we (yet) know how long it will take to relocate the Capital?

 

[Sagax]

FUN times ahead Do we (yet) know how long it will take to relocate the Capital?

100 production in her First Look.

 

[Lord Lakely]

it costs 100 production. It's actually really strong, in the endgame it literally just a forest chop away.

 

[Disgustipated]

So the thing no one has mentioned is how to defend all those aggressively placed cities. What will your response be when the AI asks you to stop settling near them? You will most likely run up some grievances with at least one civ.

There's a lot of things to account for, and at some point you have to concentrate on the bottom half of the tech tree for defense (and walls).

 

[IvoryPavane]

So the thing no one has mentioned is how to defend all those aggressively placed cities. What will your response be when the AI asks you to stop settling near them? You will most likely run up some grievances with at least one civ.

There's a lot of things to account for, and at some point you have to concentrate on the bottom half of the tech tree for defense (and walls).

Definitely, and a few well placed Quadriemes will help a lot (given they are practically indestructible if not one shot), but definitely can’t skimp out on some well placed military units too

 

[Alexadamz]

https://twitter.com/EdBeach23/status/1090680733453246464?s=19

Correction: Dido's ability DOES move the original capital, affecting Dom victories and policy cards.

Yes! That is huge! Now I am waiting for a 3rd expansion with Portugal and Mad Maria once more, just so I can change my capital from Lisbon to Rio de Janeiro and say bye bye to Napoleon's armies. It's somewhat marginal on the whole history, but it was a huge turning point on the brazilian history.

 

[steveg700]

A nod to Phoenician alphabet.

Ah, okay, it's another instance of cuteness, like Spain's extra inquisitor charge. I see.

 

[Uberfrog]

If the game has got to the point where you're frantically hopping the capital to frustrate a dominating army... you have lost anyway. It really isn't a big deal.