[GS] Phoenicia Discussion Thread

[God of Kings]

Jump to the 20:00 mark

Phoenicia's trade delegation has murex purple, Lebanon cedar, and olives.

 

[historix69]

About the Cothon :

The original cothon of Carthage was a 2nd harbor, able to house up to 220 (war)ships. It did not replace the merchant harbor. So maybe it should have been better a unique district (giving huge bonus on warships and repair) which is placed next to the normal harbor district instead of replacing it.

(While cothons were generally found in the Phoenician world, the famous cothon of Carthage would probably also have made a good World Wonder in Civ 6 (placed on coast near a harbor) with huge bonus on ancient ship production/repair.)

Spoiler :

Mediterranean Colonies :
Is it wise to use "coastal cities on the same continent" as requirement for loyalty bonus? In ancient mediterranean Tyre was in the Middle East, Carthage was in North Africa and some of the more known colonies were in Europe (Spain, Sicily, Sardinia). If the capital is moved to Carthage, Sicily which is only a few tiles away would not get get a loyalty bonus.
In general on random maps or a world map, it is possible to start on the border between 2 continent regions, getting the loyalty bonus only for one region near the capital but not for the other one which looks strange.

Spoiler :

 

[Ziad]

About the Cothon :

The original cothon of Carthage was a 2nd harbor, able to house up to 220 (war)ships. It did not replace the merchant harbor. So maybe it should have been better a unique district (giving huge bonus on warships and repair) which is placed next to the normal harbor district instead of replacing it.

A standard Cothon was a Harbor. Larger cities typically had multiple Cothons. The most famous Cothon in Carthage was mostly for military purposes (appropriate given their relatively militaristic edge).

Regardless it was still a harbor. It would have been quite weird.

That being said, having the harbor be a coastal version of the commercial district and having a new military harbor in its place might have been cool.

Is it wise to use "coastal cities on the same continent" as requirement for loyalty bonus? In ancient mediterranean Tyre was in the Middle East, Carthage was in North Africa and some of the more known colonies were in Europe (Spain, Sicily, Sardinia). If the capital is moved to Carthage, Sicily which is only a few tiles away would not get get a loyalty bonus.
In general on random maps or a world map, it is possible to start on the border between 2 continent regions, getting the loyalty bonus only for one region near the capital but not for the other one which looks strange.

They mentioned originally having the bonus apply to every coastal city without exception but they opted against it as it was overpowered. The current iteration is reasonably balanced, and the ability to move your capital away from your city strongholds to form a new cluster of settlements on a different continent is as thematically appropriate.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

For one, obviously Civ VI has a less realistic style, so holding any design to a level of realism is hoping against the reality of what VI is.

I'm well aware of the "caricatural" style of Civ6 (namely, Pedro & Philip even Trajan or Robert The Bruce).. but that doesn't stop me from wanting to compare two Dido versions with such sharp differences. There wasn't any explicit critic of whatever you might think of my sexy qualification either. It's just the overall artistic concepts that are contrasting enough between 5 & 6. One is appealing (to me as an observer & only because, of their generic GFX features like clothing, reactions by animations and a few more minor details), the other less so.

Nothing gender'ishly controversial needs to be implied or perceived from my initial comment, i assure you.

 

[Pietato]

The seastead arrived very late

 

[AmazonQueen]

Civ V Dido looked like she'd escaped from a pre-Raphaelite painting, I much prefer the more Levantine look she has in Civ VI.

 

[God of Kings]

According to the livestream, Dido has the same voice actor as from Civ V. Which other leaders retained their voice actors from V to VI?

 

[Ziad]

According to the livestream, Dido has the same voice actor as from Civ V. Which other leaders retained their voice actors from V to VI?

Here's hoping she practiced her glottals.

Civ V Dido looked like she'd escaped from a pre-Raphaelite painting, I much prefer the more Levantine look she has in Civ VI.

They really nailed it between the olive skin tone, distinctive nose, hazel eyes, etc...

 

[Pietato]

According to the livestream, Dido has the same voice actor as from Civ V. Which other leaders retained their voice actors from V to VI?

The leaders of Babylon, Portugal and the Mayans, I believe.

 

[Ziad]

The leaders of Babylon, Portugal and the Mayans, I believe.

 

[historix69]

They mentioned originally having the bonus apply to every coastal city without exception but they opted against it as it was overpowered. The current iteration is reasonably balanced, and the ability to move your capital away from your city strongholds to form a new cluster of settlements on a different continent is as thematically appropriate.

The problem is that continent regions are arbitrary. Especially on Earth where Europe, Asia and Africa are connected.

The bonus instead could be based on sea-travel-times between capital and coastal city harbors ... if a city is too far away, the bonus is reduced or vanishes. This would avoid the situation where cities next to the capital get no loyalty bonus if they are in a different continent region.

 

[Weraptor]

Guys, just imagine she put a Governor or something there to get rid of the loyalty penalty, sheesh

 

[Disgustipated]

Is this a meaningless opinion? I think it might be.

For one, obviously Civ VI has a less realistic style, so holding any design to a level of realism is hoping against the reality of what VI is.

For two, any interpretation of "virginal" as "sexy" feels kind of creepy.

It's not very nice to say someone's opinion is meaningless. He is entitled to his opinion same as everyone else.

As for the last sentence, it bothers me that someone's preferences in a mate is labeled as creepy. Huge double standard here. Women are never labeled as creeps, only men. Do you see the problem of labeling someone's preferences as wrong? Long as it's legal, who cares what one finds attractive. I'm sorry to veer off topic. I won't continue this subject. I just have to call out shaming attitudes when I see them. People think it's okay to shame men, but not women.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

The problem is that continent regions are arbitrary.

Continents aren't that arbitrary, except for Europe, which is really part of the Asian continent. In school I was taught that there were 6 continents: North America, South America, Africa, Australia, Eurasia, and Antarctica. Looking just at the landmasses on the globe, there's nothing particular contentious about those 6, I don't think.

 

[Ziad]

Continents in Civilization 6 use the geopolitical definition rather than the geographic one. Just think of Europe vs Asia.

 

[Siptah]

Continents aren't that arbitrary, except for Europe, which is really part of the Asian continent. In school I was taught that there were 6 continents: North America, South America, Africa, Australia, Eurasia, and Antarctica. Looking just at the landmasses on the globe, there's nothing particular contentious about those 6, I don't think.

There are 5,6 and 7 continent models in use today. So it can‘t be that easy

 

[pgm123]

Continents aren't that arbitrary, except for Europe, which is really part of the Asian continent. In school I was taught that there were 6 continents: North America, South America, Africa, Australia, Eurasia, and Antarctica. Looking just at the landmasses on the globe, there's nothing particular contentious about those 6, I don't think.

Some people learn that North and South America are the same continent.

 

[historix69]

Continent regions in the game can be arbitrary. You can define a Middle America continent region as shown on this picture :

Then Mexico would be on a different "continent" than United States.

Or look at Australia (continent) : It includes New Guinea but not the other islands of Indonesia, Phillippines, etc.

Australia is part of the Oceania region :

Spoiler :

 

[Ziad]

By the way, continent generation has been greatly normalized in GS with more reasonable geographic boundaries.

So I wouldn't be too concerned in terms of how arbitrary they are in Civ.

 

[historix69]

If you play a Pangaea map, how many different continent regions has the main landmass (pangaea) in Civ 6?