[GS] Phoenicia Discussion Thread

[SammyKhalifa]

While true, if you're building the harbor, it's better to have an adjacent City Center.

I still find it pretty annoying that Celestial Navigation deadends. It should be a prerequisite for something (e.g. mathematics). I wonder if people would have such a problem with it if it was a mandatory stop.

I know there's no precedent in Civ 6 (that I can think of), but I kind of wish it was an optional "prerequisite" for mathematics. That way you could take the harbor way there or the CH way there.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Do cities next to lakes count as "coastal"?

EDIT: And we still don't have confirmation whether cities next to submerged land are coastal either...do we? If so, opens up some possible interesting extension of the loyalty bonus to balance out flooding their original coastal cities. And beware the Phoenician navy rising with the waves...

 

[Disgustipated]

another minor bonus I can think of as Phoenicia is you should be able to get a classical golden age. 6 movement Biremes should ensure you discover enough things to get that golden age. Will be tricky to get a golden age during medieval though, which is when most of your expansion will happen I predict.

 

[IvoryPavane]

another minor bonus I can think of as Phoenicia is you should be able to get a classical golden age. 6 movement Biremes should ensure you discover enough things to get that golden age. Will be tricky to get a golden age during medieval though, which is when most of your expansion will happen I predict.

This is where a lot of her power will lie as well I think. Not so much in overtly powerful abilities, but ones that interact well with the overall game.

I can see the design as she has to sacrifice a bit to get her production line up and running, but once it gets going her settlers are numerous and get where they need to go fast. Then she uses the district bonus from GPlaza to fast track that city to match the other Civs.

She’s definitely interesting but I can see how some players would be like “why go to that effort when I can just build a seowon etc etc”

But as someone who loves expanding and making multiple cities, I’m really feeling this Civ. and that’s why I love this game. It often has something for everyone

 

[steveg700]

Well, I think the various ideas being thrown around for Phoenicia here in the forums were way more ambitious than what we actually received. Some of us thought cothons would be some kind of canal or seal/land hybrid. Then there were all those ideas about Phoenicia being able to recruit mercenaries from other civ's.

I personally was hoping that the devs would realize that what they did with the entertainment district and water park could work just as well for commercial hubs and harbors. I had hopes that harbors would be split into two separate districts, one commercial and the other naval. The cothon would be a replacement for the latter.

So with Dido you can move the capital, which pretty much only has the benefit of projecting capital loyalty pressure. Then she grants some abilities having to do with the one-per-empire government plaza, which is separate and apart from having anything to do with the capital, so it's not as if the government plaza can be packed up and moved and thereby broaden the UA's utility.

I was reading on Well of Souls that they start with the the eureka for Writing. What's that all about?

 

[steveg700]

another minor bonus I can think of as Phoenicia is you should be able to get a classical golden age. 6 movement Biremes should ensure you discover enough things to get that golden age. Will be tricky to get a golden age during medieval though, which is when most of your expansion will happen I predict.

Golden ages will also combine well with moving the capital around to weaponize loyalty pressure.

Guess you're thinking about keeping biremes around even after cartography?

 

[IvoryPavane]

Well, I think the various ideas being thrown around for Phoenicia here in the forums were way more ambitious than what we actually received. Some of us thought cothons would be some kind of canal or seal/land hybrid. Then there were all those ideas about Phoenicia being able to recruit mercenaries from other civ's.

I personally was hoping that the devs would realize that what they did with the entertainment district and water park could work just as well for commercial hubs and harbors. I had hopes that harbors would be split into two separate districts, one commercial and the other naval. The cothon would be a replacement for the latter.

So with Dido you can move the capital, which pretty much only has the benefit of projecting capital loyalty pressure. Then she grants some abilities having to do with the one-per-empire government plaza, which is separate and apart from having anything to do with the capital, so it's not as if the government plaza can be packed up and moved and thereby broaden the UA's utility.

I was reading on Well of Souls that they start with the the eureka for Writing. What's that all about?

There are a few benefits that she will get from moving her capital too. Namely that she takes the palace and city state envoy bonuses too.

If you assume you’ve met 3 orange city states, then the new capital will get 8 hammers per turn between the 2 palace and two per city state. It costs 100 to move and 50 to make the cothon, but you would make that back in 20 turns and the rest is profit hammers. You could use this to get a few districts and buildings online, then move to charge up a new city.

She could potentially have a wide set of Civs that are quite well developed. The loyalty gains are certainly what you would think of first though

 

[pgm123]

I know there's no precedent in Civ 6 (that I can think of), but I kind of wish it was an optional "prerequisite" for mathematics. That way you could take the harbor way there or the CH way there.

Yes. This would be the ideal solution.

It's especially weird that mathematics gives ships a movement bonus and isn't tied to the sailing line at all.

 

[WillowBrook]

BTW, was I the only one who expected Phoenicia to be a coastal only civ?

I was expecting some sort of restriction to counter a powerful advantage, and thought that settling coast only was most likely. I am surprised there was nothing like Mali's reduced mine production or no great works of writing for the Maori.

 

[Ziad]

To be fair, restricting to coastal settling is far more disadvantageous than -1 production on mines and no great works of writing from Amphitheaters.

 

[agonistes]

Tsundere queen.

Yea, it will once again be fun to see which civs tend to gel, who becomes friends with whom fairly regularly, and so forth. This 3rd new agenda should throw some baby powder in the fan, though.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

If you assume you’ve met 3 orange city states, then the new capital will get 8 hammers per turn between the 2 palace and two per city state. It costs 100 to move and 50 to make the cothon, but you would make that back in 20 turns and the rest is profit hammers. You could use this to get a few districts and buildings online, then move to charge up a new city.

I'm pretty sure CS bonuses are only applied once per type.

 

[Ziad]

I'm pretty sure CS bonuses are only applied once per type.

Nope.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I'm hopeful that cities next to lakes will receive +100% loyalty, because I want to create an epic canal network bringing Phoenician trading outposts and Battleships as far inland as I can get them.

 

[agonistes]

I'm hopeful that cities next to lakes will receive +100% loyalty, because I want to create an epic canal network bringing Phoenician trading outposts and Battleships as far inland as I can get them.

Good god man, that is genius... battleships in the open field... who needs elephants going over mountains when you can send battleships into the Sahara?

 

[UWHabs]

I'm hopeful that cities next to lakes will receive +100% loyalty, because I want to create an epic canal network bringing Phoenician trading outposts and Battleships as far inland as I can get them.

If cities next to lakes are 100% loyal, that definitely would make them a much stronger empire, since then you could set up some inland empire portion too.

 

[Ziad]

As far as I know, there is a subtle difference between "coastal" and "Coast/Lake"... but perhaps lakes also count. Usually if something is mutually exclusive they outright say

• can only be built on coast
• cannot be built in lake

We'll have to ask in the stream.

 

[Weraptor]

I was reading on Well of Souls that they start with the the eureka for Writing. What's that all about?

A nod to Phoenician alphabet.

 

[thecrazyscot]

As far as I know, there is a subtle difference between "coastal" and "Coast/Lake"... but perhaps lakes also count. Usually if something is mutually exclusive they outright say

• can only be built on coast
• cannot be built in lake

We'll have to ask in the stream.

There is that subtle difference in the water tiles themselves, but the question is if the land tiles next to coast/lakes are counted as "coastal", as that is what is important in terms of the city itself.

 

[IvoryPavane]

I'm pretty sure CS bonuses are only applied once per type.

The one envoy bonuses certainly stack, but only in the capital which is where Dido can leverage her capital switching shenanigans