Pick Ryan and blame the loss on Conservative GOPs

[AlpsStranger]

What kind of Randian spends his life on the governmenet dole?

Uh, most of them from personal experience.

 

[Murky]

Well, Ayn Rand herself ended up on Social Security and Medicare in her later years of life.

Rand underwent surgery for lung cancer in 1974 after decades of heavy smoking.[83] In 1976 she retired from writing her newsletter and, despite her initial objections, reluctantly allowed Evva Pryor, a consultant from her attorney's office, to sign her up for Social Security and Medicare.[84]
wiki

 

[Formaldehyde]

Forgive me but are you stating that being unreligious is a virtue? Ant-theists tend to be the atheist version of religius fanatics.

Being "unreligious" is hardly the same as being anti-theist despite the incessant whines from some Christians. And yes, I think it is highly virtuous when compared to the evangelists, fundamentalists, and social conservatives who think this is a "Christian nation", and wish to inflict their own religiously-inspired morals on everybody else.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I think it is highly virtuous when compared to the typical evangelist, fundamentalist, or social conservative who thinks this is a "Christian nation" and wishes to inflict their own religiously-inspired morals on everybody else.

I agree, but I don't take issue with them saying it's a "Christian Nation." It definitely is. I just disagree with them that "Christian Nation" excuses scriptural legislation and teacher-lead school prayer. Some of them don't think atheists should be able to testify in court, for instance.

What choice do I have but to oppose people who don't want me to have any rights? Could I do otherwise? I refuse to pretend to believe in Christianity. It would demean me and demean honest Christians at the same time.

 

[Formaldehyde]

No, it is supposed to be a secular nation where the current majority happen to be Christians. That hardly makes it a "Christian Nation" except in the minds of those who continue to try to turn it into a theocracy.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Just to let you guys know, none of the last few posts had anything to do with Paul Ryan.

Now, here's a question. IF Romney/Ryan loses... I repeat, IF they lose, how quick will Romney be to blame the loss on the conservative wing?

 

[AlpsStranger]

No, it is supposed to be a secular nation where the current majority happen to be Christians. That hardly makes it a "Christian Nation" except in the minds of those who continue to try to turn it into a theocracy.

Well, I don't want to get into a wordgame argument with someone I have no substantial disagreement with.

I just mean that, historically, we fall within the Christian philosophical sphere. I emphatically reject the idea of "Christian privilege" in lawmaking, so I don't think I'm your enemy here.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I didn't claim you were. But the only people who use the term "Christian Nation" are the Christians who are actually trying to turn it into just that instead of a secular society.

Ironically, a truly "Christian Nation" would actually support the poor and homeless instead of calling governmental programs to help them "entitlements".

Paul Ryan's budget logic is quandary for some Catholics

Ryan's religious beliefs have also been an important part of his politics. He often says his faith has guided his positions on social issues, putting him in line with church doctrine on abortion rights and gay marriage. But the former altar boy also cites church teaching in explaining his positions on government spending, deficit reduction and entitlements — the issues that have catapulted his rapid rise.

Such statements have raised the ire of some Roman Catholics who argue the Wisconsin Republican is twisting church teachings on caring for the poor and shielding the vulnerable to justify cutting the social safety net.

Overall, Ryan's record in Congress reflects his conservative stand on social issues. He opposes legal abortion in all circumstances except when the life of the mother is at risk. On this he is more stringent than Romney, who would make additional exceptions for rape and incest — the official position of the ticket. Planned Parenthood's Action Fund gave Ryan its lowest rating possible for his votes to defund Planned Parenthood and comments against abortion.

Ryan's record of votes to affirm legal marriage as between a man and woman left him with a similar score from equality advocates at the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest gay rights organization. Even though Ryan did vote for one priority of the gay rights community, an employment nondiscrimination act, he has largely opposed its agenda, including his vote against the repeal of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

But it is the Ryan budget — with its steep cuts to food stamps, healthcare for children and the disabled, and social programs, while sparing the Pentagon — that has put him at odds with some in his church.

Catholic nuns made a multistate bus tour this summer to bring attention to the harm they say the Ryan budget would cause the poor communities they serve and the "enormous moral choices facing our country."


In an unusually pointed correspondence, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops urged lawmakers to consider the moral implications of their actions as they prepared to vote on the Ryan budget.

"We join with other Christian leaders in calling for a 'circle of protection' around our brothers and sisters at home and abroad who are poor and vulnerable," the bishops wrote in the spring. They said the "moral measure" of the debate "is not which party wins or which powerful interests prevail, but rather how those who are jobless, hungry, homeless or poor are treated."

Ryan took on the criticism with a forceful defense of his policies.

"I suppose there are some Catholics who for a long time have thought they had a monopoly of sorts … not exactly on heaven, but on the social teaching of our church," Ryan said in a speech at Georgetown University. "Of course there can be differences among faithful Catholics on this."

Paul Ryan is the quintessential social conservative who wishes to force his own religious views on everybody else while blithely discarding any aspects of his faith that interfere with his agenda to slash "entitlements" of everybody but the rich.

 

[say1988]

Now, here's a question. IF Romney/Ryan loses... I repeat, IF they lose, how quick will Romney be to blame the loss on the conservative wing?

Several months ago.

But the former altar boy also cites church teaching in explaining his positions on government spending, deficit reduction and entitlements — the issues that have catapulted his rapid rise.

Yet his signature budget is opposed by his church...

 

[Leonel]

Ayn Rand was an atheist!?

...And conservatives listen to her?

I know, right? I really don't understand this, even from drawing from my past experience as a "talk radio" conservative. I suppose it's the idea of "earning what you keep" that resonates strongly and a way to justify ignoring the parts in the Bible that say to give to the poor without qualification.

 

[JollyRoger]

Didn't Jesus go Galt in the Gospels?

 

[Leoreth]

What kind of Randian spends his life on the governmenet dole?

Ayn Rand

I know, right? I really don't understand this, even from drawing from my past experience as a "talk radio" conservative. I suppose it's the idea of "earning what you keep" that resonates strongly and a way to justify ignoring the parts in the Bible that say to give to the poor without qualification.

Yeah, the right has always been good at pulling only the things it needs out of the authoritative sources that suit them, be it the bible or Objectivism.

 

[Murky]

Ayn Rand was an atheist!?

...And conservatives listen to her?

This video explains it (sort of). This guy wrote a book about it.


Link to video.

There are some good elements in her philosophy but a lot of over-looked bad at the same time.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Now, here's a question. IF Romney/Ryan loses... I repeat, IF they lose, how quick will Romney be to blame the loss on the conservative wing?

I think it's the other way around. The conservative wing is going to blame him immediately.

But, given his hard turn to the right, maybe this will a wake up call to the GOP to come back to the middle a bit.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

I think it's the other way around. The conservative wing is going to blame him immediately.

But, given his hard turn to the right, maybe this will a wake up call to the GOP to come back to the middle a bit.

Somehow I doubt it. Their default reaction to defeat seems to be "get more conservative!"

 

[GoodGame]

Just to let you guys know, none of the last few posts had anything to do with Paul Ryan.

Now, here's a question. IF Romney/Ryan loses... I repeat, IF they lose, how quick will Romney be to blame the loss on the conservative wing?

Are you implying the label "anti-Mormon" in fact?

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Are you implying the label "anti-Mormon" in fact?

...Er, what?

 

[say1988]

Are you implying the label "anti-Mormon" in fact?

More by claiming the GOP lost because he is a socialist liberal from Taxachusetts and if they had selected a good Conservative Teabagger like Bachman they would have won in a landslide. Nothing to do with his religion, though a few Evangelicals will likely toss his "cult" in there, but they need Mormon support going forward.

 

[WindFish]

Oh wow.

 

[Leonel]

Yup, 4 more years of Obama apparently.