Pick Ryan and blame the loss on Conservative GOPs

[AlpsStranger]

Yup, 4 more years of Obama apparently.

Don't count on it, sadly.

 

[WindFish]

Don't count on it, sadly.

Yeah, Obama could die or something.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

The Dems have always been great at losing easy wins.

 

[Antilogic]

Well, that's part of being the incumbent, so yes, Obama does have that in his favor...
However, Obama's negative numbers are also quite high, Carteresque...

My only point was, at this phase, it is hard to say Obama has a "strong" advantage. It's a close race, including in swing states, from what I've seen.


Not really... if you don't energize people to vote, it's because they don't like you enough to take the time to vote. Voting for 3rd party people just shows that some folks don't care that they are throwing their vote away because they actively support the 3rd party option... a strong liking for someone who has no shot is still just that.

Oddly enough, I was going to use an argument similar to your second paragraph to respond to your first. I'm not surprised the disapproval ratings are both high--the opposition party didn't like Carter, they didn't like Obama. What's different about Obama is that his approval rating is higher, indicating a greater number of Democrats and independents will be willing to donate time and money to his campaign, to turn out and vote, etc.

With regards to third party voting, it's a way to directly and unequivocally register that a) people aren't lazy and just don't care, and b) they really don't like either of the two majors.

Oh wow.

I'm really surprised that people are rating Paul Ryan so lowly as a pick. I thought he would be more popular than Palin with the conservatives, and Palin's unknowns would have been higher.

 

[peter grimes]

Oh wow.

What is the source of this?

I don't know how to read it... is it only asking current likely voters??

Please give some context here, otherwise it's not worth discussing.

 

[say1988]

I'm really surprised that people are rating Paul Ryan so lowly as a pick. I thought he would be more popular than Palin with the conservatives, and Palin's unknowns would have been higher.

Palin being unknown at the time would have been a huge benefit with anyone other than hardcore right wingers compared to now. That probably increased the rating with every group. It also got a lot of pull as an attempt to sway women voters, which many thought was a good idea.
Ryan is likely split more along party lines.

It also appears to use a slightly different methodology with 2012 using all adults while 2008 used only registered voters. Though I don't know how much impact unregistered adults would have.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm really surprised that people are rating Paul Ryan so lowly as a pick. I thought he would be more popular than Palin with the conservatives, and Palin's unknowns would have been higher.

Palin was so unknown in the lower 48 (+ Hawaii) and she played into the Maverick narrative perfectly at first. She was pretty, charasmatic, female (*by the female part I simply mean she was the first female VP pick and that in and of itself was exciting) and seemed to have it all together as a hockey-mom/governor of a state in budget surplus. It took a while before people came to figure out what she was really like and the honeymoon period ended. The poll was from I guess right after he picked her.

Ryan is well known for all the wrong reasons (an unpopular budget plan) and well I'll reference my comments from other threads on why he isn't a good/popular pick.

 

[Katrina-]

Palin was not the first female Vice Presidential nominee. Geraldine Ferraro was.

Ryan's numbers are currently low because the lack of a national platform for his budget plan allowed the Democrats to smear him in the 2010 election. No matter, the conservatives still won out, as they will after their plan is broadcast coherently in a national level in 2012.

 

[Leoreth]

Palin was not the first female Vice Presidential nominee. Geraldine Ferraro was.

I think he meant the first female Republican VP candidate.

Ryan's numbers are currently low because the lack of a national platform for his budget plan allowed the Democrats to smear him in the 2010 election. No matter, the conservatives still won out, as they will after their plan is broadcast coherently in a national level in 2012.

The more people know about the plan, the worse for Romney and Ryan.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I think he meant the first female Republican VP candidate.

Either way, her nomination was exciting at first for all the other reasons I gave.

 

[say1988]

The more people know about the plan, the worse for Romney and Ryan.

Hence why the Romney campaign was distancing themselves from it the moment Ryan was announced.

 

[Murky]

I think he meant the first female Republican VP candidate.


The more people know about the plan, the worse for Romney and Ryan.

Yep and it's like their tax returns. They can't keep it a secrete.

 

[kochman]

Oddly enough, I was going to use an argument similar to your second paragraph to respond to your first. I'm not surprised the disapproval ratings are both high--the opposition party didn't like Carter, they didn't like Obama. What's different about Obama is that his approval rating is higher, indicating a greater number of Democrats and independents will be willing to donate time and money to his campaign, to turn out and vote, etc.

With regards to third party voting, it's a way to directly and unequivocally register that a) people aren't lazy and just don't care, and b) they really don't like either of the two majors.



I'm really surprised that people are rating Paul Ryan so lowly as a pick. I thought he would be more popular than Palin with the conservatives, and Palin's unknowns would have been higher.

Well, high opposition numbers equal higher voter turn out for the other party.

That being said... I've been looking into Ryan more. I can't support him. I can't. I tried, because I like Romney, but he lost me. I realize I should actually realize that VP choice is often to please some weirdo block who thinks the VP sets policy... but...

I even considered voting for Obama today. I feel ashamed.

I think I'll just take the time off work and get drunk to lament the situation... no vote from the Kochman.

 

[JollyRoger]

I just got all my id's in so that I can vote against Ryan early and often, even in the states with new voter id laws.

 

[Arwon]

Has this been discussed? Paul Ryan sold shares on same day as private briefing of banking crisis

The most insane bit is this:

Until this year members of Congress were allowed to trade on price-sensitive information gathered at Washington meetings. Nor is Ryan alone in having done so.

 

[say1988]

The most insane bit is this:

Yep. Members Congress and the executive should be required to put all their investments in a blind trust. Too much insider information that is impossible to avoid and incentive to making negative decisions that benefit them personally.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I even considered voting for Obama today. I feel ashamed.

Yeah, the Ryan magic is working in my local sphere too.

A lot of my liberal friends and family were severely disappointed with Obama. Many of them were going to sit the election out, but not anymore. Ryan is the magic ticket for getting what I like to call the Hillary Bloc back under the banner.

Not sure it'll be enough to win though. Watching the polls closely and holding my breath till Nov. 6th I guess.

 

[Patroklos]

Well, Ayn Rand herself ended up on Social Security and Medicare in her later years of life.

Thats not at all fair since the government ripped her money away from her to invest in their ponzi scheme instead of letting her invest it herself.

You can forcibly mandate people participate in a program and take away their means to participate in the alternative and then whine that they did exactly what you forced them to do.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, that's the usual rationalization.

It was certainly a pragmatic decision, and I don't blame her for it.

But in the end it means that she has cooperated with and thus become an accomplice to a system she vehemently rejected on moral grounds, just to gain a short term benefit. Which is the very thing Objectivists tend to accuse others of! So, yes, in my opinion she definitely has sacrificed some of her idealism in doing that.

 

[ParkCungHee]

You can forcibly mandate people participate in a program and take away their means to participate in the alternative and then whine that they did exactly what you forced them to do.

The government never forced her to cash the checks. Most people are around 6 when they figure out "someone did it to me, so I can do it to someone else" stops being a legitimate ethical position.