Pick Up Artists

[JohnMarshall12]

What do you guys think of Pick Up Artists?

Anyone here jealous of their skills or for the older guys, wish they could go back and become one?

 

[Shadylookin]

Why be jealous it's nothing a bottle of chloroform and a rag can't fix

"hey can you tell me if this rag smells like chloroform to you?" gets them everytime

 

[MeteorPunch]

I've read the Mystery Method book and watched both his VH1 shows. It's a combination of self-help and looking at relationships as a strategy game with tactics and objectives. I don't agree with a lot of it, but it's interesting.

 

[JohnMarshall12]

I've read the Mystery Method book and watched both his VH1 shows. It's a combination of self-help and looking at relationships as a strategy game with tactics and objectives. I don't agree with a lot of it, but it's interesting.

What do you disagree with?

 

[Arwon]

There's some interesting self-help and self-esteem stuff there, but a lot of the followers of those books seem to be nerds treating it like an exam or something, cramming in order to talk to women.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

I have to admit, I've been fascinated by pick-up artists ever since that guy who shot up a gym near Pittsburgh turned out to have attended a seminar. The subculture -- the "seduction community" -- is tremendously interesting. The detail with which they craft their strategies (see MeteorPunch and Arwon, supra) is incredible and reveals a ton about how they view themselves and women (hint: they don't like them). (I don't mean to suggest that all people who do this stuff don't like women, but there's a strong theme of misogyny in a lot of the seduction community.)

Here's their schtick: you learn some methods to trick women with low self-esteem into sleeping with you.

That's pretty much it. The whole strategy is to talk to tons of women (good advice for anyone looking to meet others), throw out a few lines that will filter out women with high self esteem*, then you use some techniques meant to prey on the remaining women's insecurities. It's not presented that way, but it's pretty clear that's what it does. I suppose it works, in the sense that you end up sleeping with lots of women, but the women are merely puzzles to solve. They're not people. Any look into the pick-up artist community shows you what the term "objectification of women" means.

Again, as others here have pointed out, there are good elements to it. Talking to a lot of women is good, as is increased confidence. But the "technique" they employ isn't really consistent with considering women to be individual people with their own internal lives. And there's a meta predator-prey relationship at work, too -- the PUAs prey on insecure men to get exorbitant fees to attend seminars to learn "the game."

Cleo

*That's the purpose of the "neg," I've figured out -- a filtering system. Any woman with a good opinion of herself is going to say, "Who does this guy with the fuzzy top hat think he is?" when "negged." Any woman who remains will be easier to manipulate with the PUAs' games.

 

[RedRalph]

Picking up girls is easy

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Unless they are obese Ralph.

 

[RedRalph]

Unless they are obese Ralph.

Hide magnets in their pies and use an electromagnetic crane

 

[Elrohir]

What do you guys think of Pick Up Artists?

Anyone here jealous of their skills or for the older guys, wish they could go back and become one?

I think they pretty much miss the entire 'point.' I don't think the objective is sleeping with tons of women with low self-esteem, I think it is (or at least, should be) finding someone that you're compatible and enjoy spending time with, and who you can live with for the rest of your life. Now, getting up the courage to talk to girls, and not being discouraged after one says no is good advice on that front - but the rest is mostly crap. You might be able to find some woman in a bar who will sleep with you if you take advantage of her insecurities, but it's not likely that you'll find a worthy mate that way.

I agree with Cleo - the subculture, the community of "pick up artists" is kind of interesting. But I don't think they offer a whole lot for young men who want a real relationship - and what they do offer, OT can give to you if you just start a thread about that girl on the bus. (Of course, if you don't want a relationship, and just want lots of tail, then I guess they might offer something for you.)

 

[RedRalph]

Women want to be taken over and dominated by men, put into semi-overwhelming situations(ie the neg) and have their emotions go wild. In fact negs work best on HIGH esteem women who have a lot of male interest towards them or social status. When a male doesnt do it, the female interest fades away and she seeks for someone else that fullfils the criteria. Thats life, high esteem or low, thats how it works. Arguing against it is arguing against the natural mating behaviour of homo sapiens, its being delusional towards reality.

Would I be right to assume that armed with this insight you can pick women up pretty easily?

 

[Gooblah]

Hide magnets in their pies and use an electromagnetic crane

Wouldn't that rip the magnets out of their body?

..though, that would create convenient handholds for the stronger ones.

 

[Flying Pig]

I don't think that's right, somehow - judging by that and your CUT, I would guess you don't manage very often

 

[Kozmos]

Yes, what they do offer is when the guy discovers that his gf who is the typical cute girl that doesnt go out at nights, is cheating on him with some guy and the guys whole world view is destroyed and he has no idea how it could happen and what went wrong, then the Pick up community can help him, teach the real social dynamics that apply both to picking up, longterm relationships, hell even male friends. Make no mistake, the rules are there, just a lot of guys decide to ignore them and unfortunately then they get hurt.

Guys fault for reading the girl wrong. No need to follow some imaginary rules. The signs are all there, you just have to keep an eye out for them. And if his world is destroyed by one woman cheating on him, that's a pretty pathetic man.

Women want to be taken over and dominated by men, put into semi-overwhelming situations(ie the neg) and have their emotions go wild. In fact negs work best on HIGH esteem women who have a lot of male interest towards them or social status. When a male doesnt do it, the female interest fades away and she seeks for someone else that fullfils the criteria. Thats life, high esteem or low, thats how it works. Arguing against it is arguing against the natural mating behaviour of homo sapiens, its being delusional towards reality.

Uhh right, maybe like 10% of them. Normal, intelligent women just want a bloke with a spine, not a guy who's gonna slap 'em if they dont make him spinach.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I suspect that xarthaz's technique is to chat to them about the Austrian economics thing until they lapse into unconsciousness caused by terminal boredom.

 

[Mise]

I became convinced a long time ago that there are a great many things that xarthaz knows nothing about. It surprises me very little that women is one of them.

Cleo's post was most enlightening though!

EDIT: X-post with ParadigmShifter -- ROFL.

 

[Flying Pig]

I know one guy - 5'2" and nicknamed 'Legs' - whose strategy is just to go clubbing all night and offer the most drunk one there a lift home, so he can say that he gave a girl a lift home.

 

[Brighteye]

There is a great deal of generic social interaction training. You talk to people, don't get nervous, make a few jokes, don't be shy...
it's the sort of stuff that mothers would tell their children, only perhaps laid out more like a set of rules to follow. This makes it more palatable for the shy men it targets.
Then there's the more in depth stuff, once a guy has actually spoken to a load of women: ways to make a move without being too forward seem like another relatively nice thing for shy men, but picking up on female insecurity less so.
It all depends on how far a guy takes it. There are plenty of guys who want sex primarily who are not pick up 'artists'.

 

[Masquerouge]

Cleo and Elrohir hit it on the nail. PUA can be useful if you're just interested in tricking women pot have sex with you, but not for making long-term relationships.
I've seen a video of a pick-up training and it's ugly and scary. Basically women are preys and you are a hunter...

Plus, from watching a few shows, I've always wondered how big the impact of having a camera pointed at you is for picking up girls. Probably skews the results A LOT.

And to answer the OP, no, I'm not jealous.

 

[Brighteye]

Cleo and Elrohir hit it on the nail. PUA can be useful if you're just interested in tricking women pot have sex with you, but not for making long-term relationships.
I've seen a video of a pick-up training and it's ugly and scary. Basically women are preys and you are a hunter...

Plus, from watching a few shows, I've always wondered how big the impact of having a camera pointed at you is for picking up girls. Probably skews the results A LOT.

And to answer the OP, no, I'm not jealous.

I'd have thought that a camera would scare girls off. Cameras give the idea of actors (and fakery).
If someone chatted me up whilst being filmed I would guess that I was being part of a comedy or documentary about how gullible and easy people are. I would be quite cautious.
On the other hand, I would be more curious, and I'd be more willing to give out some contact details for a meeting without a camera. I don't know what these films tend to show.
Girls in particular would be more worried about appearing to be easy on camera.