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Planning cIV BTS MTDG III

Discussion in 'Civ4 -ISDG 2012' started by Sommerswerd, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. Shoot the Moon

    Shoot the Moon Playing World in Conflict

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    In regards to your first question, yeah it would usually go like:

    Team 1: "We pick X"
    Team 2 goes and deliberates (or hopefully if you're only second you can have made a list of the top-2 choices, but deliberation certainly plays a part for the later teams depending on what combination of leaders and civs are left)
    Team 2 then announces what they pick and so on.

    In regards to a chat, I also agree with the variety of different time zones, and the size of some of the teams it is probably easier to just make a thread for it.
     
  2. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    I have prepared a new thread which will be used for making official choices of civs and leaders. Here is the official civ/leader selection thread.

    Note that it is presently closed to replies because we have not started the process of choosing civs/leaders yet. I suggest we start this process on 4 June 2012, at which time the thread will be opened.

    I have also included at the top of the new thread some additional explanation which hopefully clarifies any questions about the snake pick. Any further questions, please ask here. :)
     
  3. Yuufo

    Yuufo Chieftain

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    I updated the UniversCiv team Settings/Ruleset vote.
     
  4. SevenSpirits

    SevenSpirits Immortal?

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    I have a question about Manolo's mod. Does it work if you're on a mac? Thanks.
     
  5. Manolo65

    Manolo65 Chieftain

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    No idea. Its a normal civ mod. I dont kwon whats civs things dont work in a mac
     
  6. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    I don't see any English translation available at the aptmod website. The vast majority of the players in this game will not understand Spanish. How many people, outside the Spanish team, have actually checked out and fully understood both the mod and website we are contemplating using for a ~2 year game with several hundred players?

    It just seems like we're jumping too fast into this, without fully considering every factor. Without English instructions/tutorials for the website and mod, and English documentation of changes in what will be an entirely new version of the mod, it does not make sense to push forward with this so quickly.

    Don't get me wrong - I would love to have a chance to learn over time what the mod and website can do. The discussion has intrigued me, and I'm curious to learn more. And sometime later, once we all have more experience with the website and mod, it might be good to play another large game using it.

    But that's just it... we need time to experience and understand this for ourselves, rather than rushing into it in a game with hundreds of players where 90% have little to no experience with the website and mod. Added to that, nearly half of the teams have already indicated that they are not in favour of using a mod to control double moves - and this is before the final votes have been tallied, so some teams may still reconsider their position.

    Just trying to be pragmatic here. Love the idea, but think we need significantly more time to fully experience and understand this for ourselves before such a large game.
     
  7. Manolo65

    Manolo65 Chieftain

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    Until a month ago I was living happily playing with my friends with my mod.

    This caught me by surprise that he had no plans to officially publish the mod.

    Give me a week and Magno and I will have everything ready in English, a presentation post (with and without the BUG mod included) and all features changelog and examples of all available data on the web.

    The basic functionality has been tested in more than 15 or 20 rounds and I think I can say that the mod does not have major bugs. All you can see the source code also, of course.

    Anyway I understand that this game will not play with my mod, no problem.

    But I'm sure people will want if you prove it;)
     
  8. Nick Carpathia

    Nick Carpathia Unleash the HAARP

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    Ugh, I spend alot of time on a Mac without PC access, a mod is a huge barrier of entry to players. Not to mention anyone interested in turnplaying, or even logging in to take screenshots of the turns, have to download, install and run the mod properly. This cuts the pool of potential turnplayers and replacements to a fraction of its former self.

    Put it this way. The stars have aligned, there is a huge fractitious population of dedicated and skilled players that have all converged together to play an old computer game two years after its overhyped sequel has been released, and people want to restrict access using a mod?

    Wrong time, wrong place. I'd also be interested in seeing this mod in action, but for something low key, not for something this high profile.
     
  9. ruff_hi

    ruff_hi Live 4ever! Or die trying

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    I think the answer to this is NO ... dll related mods don't work on Macs. Python / xml only mods are ok with a little tweaking in some situations.
     
  10. Kloreep

    Kloreep Chieftain

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    Log-in (GUEST/GUEST works) and you should see an "English" link at the top right.

    Fair concerns. As is Mac compatibility.
     
  11. plako

    plako Chieftain

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    I notice that Barbs have not really been voted. I hope you're ok with them being off. Since I would had to do some rebalancing for my map draft, if they're turned on.

    Also I won't follow your wish concerning "engineered starts". As I said when volunteering my goal is balanced starts and if someones capital is significantly weaker than others that goal has not been reached. I hope this is ok.
     
  12. tobiasn

    tobiasn Chieftain

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    @Manolo, I tried loading the mod on my Mac -- it loads OK (I see APTMod2013a on my top right), but I see there's some DLL files in the mod, and these won't load on a Mac AFAIK. Can you elaborate a little on how this actually works? Does your mod alter the default gameplay with alterations in the DLL file?

    Is there any way to quickly test if it works?
     
  13. Manolo65

    Manolo65 Chieftain

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    I have no experience with mac. My mod does not change the game, only pushes data to the web (aptmod.com), this makes the CvGameCoreDLL.dll and only in the pitboss server . I have no idea if a mac client connects to a game with my mod works or not .. :(

    Let me a few days to finish the mod without the BUG MOD and we can host a test game to prove this with you.
     
  14. Beto_civfr

    Beto_civfr Chieftain

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    A few words about the double move mod.

    This mod has also been successfully tested on a civfr game. It gives two important advantages, and both these advantages should be even more important in a demo game pitboss compare to single players pitboss according to me.

    1. As someone wrote, many people in each team will have the possibility to connect themselves to the game. "Accidental" connections during wars will certainly not be rare, and even without any real double move, suspicion will for sure pollute the game.

    2. This mode gives a lot of comfort with the timer management.
    I don't know what rules were used in your previous pitboss demo games, and I didn't see anything yet in the rules for this present game about that, but I guess that playing a demo game with a fix 24h timer can create difficulties and frustration during wars, as the time available for each team involved in the war will be significantly decreased. Usually, this is during these war periods that discussions inside each team are the more intense and that collective decisions need more time to be taken.
    The spanish mod is very convenient for that, even in single players pitboss.
    During a war, there is no stress for the first player who does not have to play absolutely before a certain deadline, and the second player still has 24h to play his turn. In a demo game pitboss, this would give a lot of comfort to all belligerent teams during critical periods.


    I must precise that I'm talking about the version of the MOD that only prevents double moves. I share the concerns expressed by some of you concerning a new version of a MOD never tested. Such a version should for sure be tested before launching the biggest world event of this year after the olympic games...:D
     
  15. tobiasn

    tobiasn Chieftain

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    Thanks for the reply Manolo.

    I tried loading up a (Single Player) game with the mod loaded -- I ended up with no controls, no UI. (no turn counter, research bar, icons, unit info, score, etc). Seems a bit weird.. I'll test some more, but since the mod uses a modified DLL, I think it's probably not working on Macs as it is. Let me know if you want screenshots.

    Too bad, really. Let me know if I can help you with testing. If it's basically only pushing data to a server and not altering the local version of the game, it's probably totally feasible to make this work cross-platform.

    But for the short term (MTDG III) this might be bad news for Mac players, including myself.
     
  16. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    The "engineered starts" was a separate and unrelated issue - perhaps it should have been elaborated to you better. Basically this was a proposed option where teams would choose how their BFC would be laid out (including which resources, etc). It wasn't particularly popular... in fact it was unanimously voted against.

    However, all teams that voted were in favour of "fair/balanced starts", so it sounds like your map will be just fine. :)

    Note that it is extremely easy to change the turn timer in a pitboss game for this purpose. If we're initially playing with 24 hours per turn and then a war starts where at least one side desires a full 24 hours, the host can easily change the turn timer to 48 hours. If a three-way war begins where each side wants 24 hours, then we can change the turn timer to 72 hours. This is extremely simple and does not require any mod. :)

    Indeed... it would be very sad for an unforeseen issue with an untested new version of the mod to crop up after thousands of hours have been invested into the game. While I have faith in Manolo's abilities, mistakes and oversights are simply a fact of life in programming... and it is never wise to introduce a new version of any program at a major event before there has been time to thoroughly test it.

    It just seems to makes much more sense to play this round of the multi-site game without the mod, while carefully testing and tweaking the mod over the coming months. Once the mod has been thoroughly tested and we're all happy with it, it would be great to use it in future multi-site games... as well as games everywhere! I can definitely see this mod becoming hugely popular amongst the English multiplayer community, after everything has been carefully tested and any issues fixed. :)

    It would indeed be a real shame if anyone using a Mac was locked out from playing in the game. This would not be the case if we played an unmodded game.
     
  17. Kloreep

    Kloreep Chieftain

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    Plako: I had assumed barbs on. My team wishes to make them Raging, in fact. Is it truly that big a problem for the map design?

    Folks, all this discussion of APT is happening a bit late, and the Mac compatibility is, IMO, an important piece of info that has only just come up. How about we delay the final vote on mods, and the start of the draft process if that's what gets voted, til the 6th (Eastern is my timezone, but anything vaguely U.S. gets you the idea :)). All other settings can still be finalized tomorrow on the 4th, and teams can still post preliminary votes on the mods to get an idea of where we're at.

    So what about using this older version of the mod? (I assume it's the same version as has also been used successfully in many Apolyton Spanish forum games?) We'd lose the newer features Manolo is adding, but gain some more confidence in its reliability.

    Also, would you folks at civfr happen to have experience to contribute to the Mac issue? It certainly sounds like it's not compatible. :(
     
  18. plako

    plako Chieftain

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    Well imagine someone having wasteland nearby and other not.
     
  19. Beto_civfr

    Beto_civfr Chieftain

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    It may be the best solution. Preventing any intentional or accidental double move is really interesting.

    No idea. I will ask but I don't think someone used a Mac during this game.
     
  20. Lord Parkin

    Lord Parkin aka emperor

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    Well, whether or not there's a mod should have absolutely no bearing on civ/leader choice, so I don't see any reason why the two can't happen simultaneously. (Snake pick with unrestricted leaders has a clear majority now, by the way.)

    I'd be cautious about delaying the civ/leader picking any longer, because it's a process likely to take at least 1 week, possibly closer to 2 weeks - and theoretically up to 18 days. Remember that there are 18 separate choices to be made, and many will require team discussion as they depend on earlier choices by other teams. We don't want to finish up everything else only to have to wait an extra week or so for the civ/leader picking to finish. ;)

    Do you really think it'll be that much an issue to vote for civs/leaders starting from tomorrow? As civ/leader votes are completely unrelated to whether we play a modded or unmodded game, I just don't see the logic in not getting started on what's likely to be a slow process ASAP. Would be nice to be starting this game by mid-June. :)
     

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