playtest feedback

[Refar]

\MODS
[COLOR="Red"]             \fury-road-v08
                \Fury Road 
                 fury-road-v08 (config settings)
                 fury-road-v08.ini.bak[/COLOR]
                   [COLOR="SeaGreen"]\Fury Road
 Fury Road (config settings)
                    Fury Road.ini.bak
                    Fury Road (HTML doc) 
                     \Assets
                    \Art
                     \Python (ect)
                       \Public Maps
                      Fury Road map
                      Fury_Road.py[/COLOR]

The red marked folders need to go away so the green branch is directly within the Mod folder.

 

[mooguy]

The red marked folders need to go away so the green branch is directly within the Mod folder.

But...Aren't I destroying the patch?

Yes! Finally got it working. Thanks Refar.

 

[davidlallen]

You could use the Fibbonacci series as a determinant on how fast things grow. If you give each depot a value of 1, then keep a running sum of how many depots a player has.

That is an interesting idea, but it could get a little messy in the case of a depot changing hands from one player to another, maybe getting occupied by barbs, etc.

Today, each depot starts with a counter initialized to zero. It increments each time that depot produces a unit. If the counter is greater than 4, then the chance of producing a new unit is less. If the counter is greater than 8, there is no chance of producing a new unit. The benefit to this approach is that the "supply" of parts does not change if the depot changes hands.

 

[Refar]

I think the depots work fine as they are now.

I would trim down the numbers a bit more (Maybe 3 and 6 units) but make the final state of the depot still produce units at very low odds (like 1% chance or something) rather than run out completely.
But this is just a question of taste.

 

[orlanth]

If you're wanting to allow bikers, utes and infantry to wield xbows, small arms, and other weapons without having to make a separate unit type for each possible combination, you could try having each weapon as a fixed "promotion" that can be assigned to any unit. FfH (I know, stop mentioning it.. ) uses this to allow many unit types to carry Bronze, Iron, or Mithril weapons; its probably possible to borrow this code.

I'm not sure, but it might also be possible to cap the number of units that carry a certain weapon type based on how many resources you control. Alternatively, units carrying Crossbows could have an advantage in some situations (defending cities?) or there could be a rock-paper-scissors mechanism of relative advantages to discourage overreliance on a single unit type.

 

[davidlallen]

If you're wanting to allow bikers, utes and infantry to wield xbows, small arms, and other weapons without having to make a separate unit type for each possible combination, you could try having each weapon as a fixed "promotion" that can be assigned to any unit. FfH (I know, stop mentioning it.. ) uses this to allow many unit types to carry Bronze, Iron, or Mithril weapons; its probably possible to borrow this code.

I'm not sure, but it might also be possible to cap the number of units that carry a certain weapon type based on how many resources you control. Alternatively, units carrying Crossbows could have an advantage in some situations (defending cities?) or there could be a rock-paper-scissors mechanism of relative advantages to discourage overreliance on a single unit type.

I suppose one could carry this to the extreme, and have only one unit called "guy" and then every different type of weapon could be a promotion Most mods use different unit types for this. I have used the promotion idea for the utility truck, where I want to get the feel of a single unit that gets pretty powerful with experience.

I have thought a little bit about different types of unit caps by resource. For the post-apocalyptic "Mad Max" feel, I definitely want fuel caps; so each oil well generates fuel tankers at a certain slow rate. That introduces more micromanagement than people may want. So I want to make sure this is done right before putting in other limits. We have just discussed about an ammunition limit to make the gunpowder weapon units (guardian in particular) somewhat rarer. I may do more with caps in the future, but I want to proceed slowly.

The idea of rock/paper/scissors is an important one, and I hope the existing units have that: flamethrower is anti-infantry, AT is anti-tank, etc. I worked a little on this in the version 0.5 - 0.6 timeframe. If you have any suggestions for tuning it, or additional elements to throw into the mix, please let us know.

 

[demon59]

Sorry for delayed reply, but I have no 'net access at home, and this is first chance to get online.

The role of the jeep line *is* enhanced ute which uses fuel. Is your comment about the unit graphics? The ute has strength 10, the jeep has strength 14, the humvee has strength 20. Previously the ute had strength 8. I agree we need to find a way to increase the differentiation between ute and jeep.

Perhaps you should swap out the Jeep and UTE units. That is, make the Jeep the bottom rung of the ladder. In the real world, most military jeeps were actually fairly low-powered vehicles (inline 4-cylinder engines, mostly), with no protection at all for driver or passengers. Pick-ups tend to be more robust, with larger engines and enclosed cabs. Start with unfuelled, crossbow Jeeps, and maybe limit the "gun mount" promotion to the third level, instead of the second. This would still allow the Jeep to become fairly powerful, but should slow this to keep it from passing by the new, more powerful, fuelled Rifle UTEs.

Is there a different role that the biker could play? I have a few ideas for civ-specific unique units which would be available to leaders with a biker background. For example, a "Hell's Angel" unit which starts with the off-road promotion. Or one that has the City Raider promo line available.

What about as a more dedicated scouting/rapid response unit? Let it start with fuel-free and off-road promotions, and give it the scout's "no bad results from goody huts" ability. As for strength, if you don't want to bump the initial strength up to 8, at least consider returning the
"+50% vs. animals" promo (to the biker line only), so that surviving one or two combats will give it a fighting chance against most animals, and non-gunpowder barbs.

Looking forward to v0.09!

 

[davidlallen]

Perhaps you should swap out the Jeep and UTE units. That is, make the Jeep the bottom rung of the ladder.

That is an interesting idea; I have to think about it some more. In the "Road Warrior" movie, the bad guys had motorcycles and buggies, which fit your description of low powered unprotected vehicles. Moving jeeps below utes would require some restructuring and rebalancing, but it does fit the theme better. The jeep becomes more of an "advanced biker" unit.

What about [survivor biker] as a more dedicated scouting/rapid response unit? Let it start with fuel-free and off-road promotions, and give it the scout's "no bad results from goody huts" ability.

I also like that idea. Once you get combustion, you would use this unit to scout. The ones that survive and get a few levels could be useful as animal defense in the midgame. I already have the graphics for it (a simple reskin of the punk biker unit) but this may be a worthwhile role.

 

[Deon]

Shouldn't the eagle be unattackable by melee/animals?
You could have a special "ranged"/"melee" promotions on units of different type (i.e. survivor has "melee" and it's replaced by "ranged" promo. Or, easier, just have it as separate unit types (melee, ranged, cavalry, ranged cavalry). Same thing with future balloons/aircraft. Barbarians with axes shouldn't destroy flying zeppelins.

 

[davidlallen]

I guess the vanilla game doesn't worry too much about that. Gunships can be attacked by anything. In "Road Warrior", Max was able to defeat a (primitive) gunship, by sneaking up on the pilot while he was sleeping.

 

[Deon]

OK. But this is a great exception, right?
So they should at least get bonuses against not-ranged units. Doesn't it make enough sense to implement?

 

[davidlallen]

The toughest player melee unit has strength 6. Against a strength 24 gunship, does a penalty really matter? The toughest animal melee unit has strength 12 (deathclaw). With a turn length of 3 months, I can imagine a pack of deathclaws ambushing the gunships on the ground. But even then, unless the gunship is badly damaged, the deathclaws are going to get pounded. Since vanilla doesn't give this type of penalty, are there other mods that do?

 

[Deon]

Well, I see the way you imagine this, I just wanted to know why did you make so.

I had this idea after my eagles died to wolves near city. They could be useful as scouts if they were more protected. Maybe a sentry I for eagles discovered in ruins would give them more safety and use?

 

[davidlallen]

Oh, I see your point is more about the Eagle (hero unit). He has 80% withdrawal chance. I guess those wolves must have caught him while he was sleeping one night! I agree sentry would be a good addition to the unit; would it have helped you in this case?

 

[Refar]

The thing here is that withdraal chance only works when a unit is attacking. On defense a unit will never withdraw.

 

[davidlallen]

I never knew that. Is there any way to specify that a unit being attacked could sneak away before being destroyed? That is what I was aiming for.

 

[Refar]

I am sure that this can not be done from XML.

There might be a Python entry point on "Unit Destroyed" or something - when you hack in there, you could give the unit a chance to "reapeear" somewhere nearbye (Maybe in the next friendly city - would save you the hassle of choosing the "best" withdrawal direction).

 

[Deon]

I agree sentry would be a good addition to the unit; would it have helped you in this case?

It would help against most 2-movement creatures and would make it a cool scouting unit.

 

[demon59]

I know it has been discussed before, but I'm playing a game where I've discovered a fair-sized (maybe 4 cities w/o major overlap) island, separated from the mainland by only one water tile.

I understand davidlallen has reasons he hasn't divulged for wishing to stick to a pangea format, but this game really does need a basic boat unit, above the workboat.
I was thinking something small (1 or 2 unit max. cargo) and slow (1 or 2 tile per turn max. movement per turn), and a national unit with a cap of 2 or 3.
This should limit its usefulness to exploration/expansion rather than any serious invasion capability, thus making it less of a play balance issue.

Also, a fisherman's wharf adding +1 , and maybe a cannery building adding +1 (and only available after building of fisherman's wharf and possibly granary) is seriously needed.

I really like this mod, and appreciate all the time and effort that has been put into it. Keep up the good work, folks!
Looking forward to 0.9!

 

[davidlallen]

I know it has been discussed before, but I'm playing a game where I've discovered a fair-sized (maybe 4 cities w/o major overlap) island, separated from the mainland by only one water tile.

Thanks for the suggestion. I view this as a bug in the mapscript, which I hope to fix at some point.