Pleasing Aggressive Neighbours

[Framesticker]

So today I played a Terra/Normal/Emperor/Random Leader game and got Lincoln, one of my favorite leaders. I had two immediate neighbours - Tokugawa from the north and Kublai Khan from the south. I figured it wouldn't take long before one of them declared on me, so I decided to make them hate each other more than they hated me and gifted them a city each on the eastern land that was left unclaimed, which made them kiss each other with their borders. It got them both to Pleased but they were Pleased with each other too (being both warmongers and in Christianity, this was a Choose Religions game). So I gave CoL to Kublai for him to convert to Islam a few turns later, which brought them to Cautious with each other. 6 turns later, Kublai declares on me. I lacked adequate defenses to hold against his 10 unit Sword/Axe SoD and when he took Washington, I retired.

I figure Kublai had been plotting war on me before he got to Cautious with Toku (otherwise he'd have plotted against Toku) but considering the circumstances, what action should I have taken? I had no Copper, Horse or Iron in my inital 3 cities and only had Iron much later on on my 4th city. I've always figured diplomacy is the best defense, but how do I do it with enemies like this?

 

[Zyphen]

I'm no Civ genius by any means, but wouldn't it have served you better to just make friends out of one of them and then have the two of you (or just bribe your selected warmongering friend) take out the other? And him later if you really want that other guy's land, after you've consolidated your position.

Probably would have gone with Kublai Khan since from my own experience Tokugawa takes ages to even Open Borders with.

 

[Framesticker]

I'm no Civ genius by any means, but wouldn't it have served you better to just make friends out of one of them and then have the two of you (or just bribe your selected warmongering friend) take out the other? And him later if you really want that other guy's land, after you've consolidated your position.

Probably would have gone with Kublai Khan since from my own experience Tokugawa takes ages to even Open Borders with.

Tokugawa signs OB at Pleased, which I got out of him for gifting him a city. The thing is, it was way too early for gifting techs or being at wars together to make friends out of one guy.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

If you're sandwinched between 2 war mongers sometimes there isn't much you can do about being DOWed by one of them or both. How close someone is is a huge factor in who the AI chooses to declare on.

Most warmongers need to get to Friendly before you are totally safe. Getting them to pleased just makes them less likely to attack you, but that doesn't help if you're the only target, or the nearest target.

The options? Settle some hills with a stack of archers and let them attack you there. Or rush them if you have metal or horses.

Or maybe you could avoid settling near them at all if possible.

 

[Framesticker]

If you're sandwinched between 2 war mongers sometimes there isn't much you can do about being DOWed by one of them or both. How close someone is is a huge factor in who the AI chooses to declare on.

Most warmongers need to get to Friendly before you are totally safe. Getting them to pleased just makes them less likely to attack you, but that doesn't help if you're the only target, or the nearest target.

The options? Settle some hills with a stack of archers and let them attack you there. Or rush them if you have metal or horses.

Or maybe you could avoid settling near them at all if possible.

So in situations like this, raising an army is the only thing truly guiding you? I see.

 

[vicawoo]

Pleased tokugawa is perfectly safe. I wouldn't call him a true warmonger, though he has hidden warmonger respect with Tokugawa which will prevent mutual wars. It's obviously not too early to gift a city if you have the spare production, since if he had started planning a war before he hit pleased, he would still attack.