Pmod01 - A lightly modded SG

[silk1976]

My thinking with waiting a bit before settling a second city (and it wouldn't be too awful long anyway) is that I've read various threads and such where someone has run simulations and found out that its better to let a city grow a little bit and then pop out settlers. While it delays starting the settler, long term it is better. The exceptions tend to be a race for copper (when the resource is near a neighboring AI civ), or if there is a nearby settling location that would be an early worker/settler farm and eventually transition to a GP farm. We dont have that scenario here.
All that said - it is just a thought. I'm certainly amenable to the idea of pumping out a settler earlier. That was part of the reason why I stopped when I did - because no were committed to the next build - so there is nothing to be lost by switching.

I'm a fan of stonehenge. I like not having to build a monument to accelerate border pops in new towns. Also, with our traits being protective/charismatic - I believe we get 1 free with a monument - making it doubly useful to us.
Which tech unlocks SH? Was it masonry, or is it mysticism. If myst, then I'd say switch from AH to myst and unlock stonehenge, then go after AH.

 

[cripp7]

yes myst unlocks Stonehenge and the +1 is a big must n the early game

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

So is stonehenge agreed by the team??

 

[cripp7]

Although SH does give the free monuments and +2gp points, the hammers it takes you can REX with those. but it doesn't matter as there aren't any civs close by, so I'd yes

 

[silk1976]

Although SH does give the free monuments and +2gp points, the hammers it takes you can REX with those. but it doesn't matter as there aren't any civs close by, so I'd yes

I'd be curious of the results of an analysis where SH is built when you get the +1 due to leader traits, resulting in the higher happy cap and therefore additional hammers - as compared to REX'ing with those hammers. This is above and beyond the savings of hammers req'd to build a monument, plus the time delay in getting the borders to pop.
But there are a bunch of variables, so it'd probably be very difficult to come to a conclusion. As you mention, if there are AI's nearby, it could definately change things!

 

[pnaxighn]

I'd be curious of the results of an analysis where SH is built when you get the +1 due to leader traits, resulting in the higher happy cap and therefore additional hammers - as compared to REX'ing with those hammers. This is above and beyond the savings of hammers req'd to build a monument, plus the time delay in getting the borders to pop.
But there are a bunch of variables, so it'd probably be very difficult to come to a conclusion. As you mention, if there are AI's nearby, it could definately change things!

Even a pretty simple analysis shows that's situational. Since it's +1 happy/city, the number of cities matters. Clearly, with infinite cities, Stonehenge provides infinite happies (or saves you infinite hammers, either way), while with 1 city, it provides you with one happy (or saves you a few hammers). I think the choice is easy in both those cases (assuming you only count the monument bonus, and not the +GP bonus), but the expected value of the number of cities at which each is equally useful is harder to calculate.

So, in this case? No idea

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

So I think it's time to stop the discussion..

IT:
As we're not in slavery I changed civics immediately. As well as I changed the warrior to a worker and AH to Myst.

3040 BC:
Our Scout beat a Lion and promoted to Woodsman I.

3000 BC:
While healing our scout beat even a bear!!!

2920 BC:
Myst is in and I changed back to AH. In London it was time to perform the for the first time. One POP and the worker is ours. In between turns our just healed worrior got attacked by another Lion an won!!!

2880 BC:
Our Worker is out and we started on Stonehenge! Unfortunately our sout didn't survive the third attack.. He got eaten by a lion! EATEN by our heraldic animal.. What an irony of fate..

2640 BC:
Healed two turns before our warrior killed another lion.. Do we have raging animals on????????

2600 BC:
AH is in. And we've got horses in our BFC!!
I changed tech to wheel.

2560 BC:
Right now we've got the evidence that we're not alone on our continent:

Spoiler :

"Welcome" Sitting Bull...

2440 BC:
Once again our Warrior only scouted two turns.. He killed his third lion while this turnset.. Combat two is OK.. But there's nearly no new land we discovered!!!

2320 BC:
The weel is in and I changed to writing, as London has some ultra plus on food so early libs might be a good idea!
And as I said above I'll end the discussion about Stonehenge:

Spoiler :

Here we go guys!!!!!

That's where I stopped. writing is some kind of placeholder as the warrior is.. I think we need to start our settling! So building another warrior and the settler afterwards would be my choice.. On the techfront I think writing followed by pottery would be my decision. While researching writing the worker should build a mine on the hill he's standing and afterwards he should connect the horses to London. After doing so he might start the road to red dot as this should be our first city..

Hopefully I didn't crash the whole game...

Edit:
Forgot the rooster:
Pnaxighn --> on deck
silk1976
Thy_Spellcraft --> just played
cripp7 --> Up now

 

[silk1976]

Checked the save - here are my thoughts:

• Nice that we have horses in the BFC. We should research horseback riding before too long - can help out with scouting.
• Instead of mining a hill, I think we should pasturize the horses first. They will provide a few more hammers. A pasturized horse provides 3 and 2 , whereas the grassland mines hill will provide 3 and 1 . So if we are going to be building settlers and workers, pasturizing the horse gives us an extra food to do so with.
• I'd continue warrior build, followed by settler who would be escorted by said warrior.
• Since we are going to be in London for quite a while, I dont think teching writing is a high priority at this point. The increase would be minimal for the we are currently producing, and the extra food from clams, pigs and horses would be better spent going to repopulating london after a . So I think tech needs to go to pottery first, so's that we can build a granary instead. THEN maybe go after writing.
• I agree with red dot location being the first to settle, followed by blue dot. Subsequent settlements would be best decided upon when we have more scouting done.

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Nice that we have horses in the BFC. We should research horseback riding before too long - can help out with scouting.

I don't think we'll need HR 'cause for scouting we have carriots and as it seems we don't want to fight an early war..

Since we are going to be in London for quite a while, I dont think teching writing is a high priority at this point. The increase would be minimal for the we are currently producing, and the extra food from clams, pigs and horses would be better spent going to repopulating london after a . So I think tech needs to go to pottery first, so's that we can build a granary instead. THEN maybe go after writing.

I agree.. might be the better idea.

 

[silk1976]

I don't think we'll need HR 'cause for scouting we have carriots and as it seems we don't want to fight an early war..

I was like Phelps there for a bit - thinking we'd need HR for chariots. Whoops!

 

[cripp7]

Got it! will put up a Pre-play shortly

Good job on SH

Tech path pottery>writing>archery>med>priest make a run for Oracle?

Builds warrior>settler>worker>warrior>repeat

Settle red copper, then blue, made a dot map with fish

 

[cripp7]

Pre-turn

Switch to pottery to get those granaries 7 cottages up for
Move the worker to stare a pasture
switch tiles from forrest/grass to +3 forrest/hill
Growth in 2t warrior in 3t


Turn 1 t43
Worker starts horse +2 +3

Turn 2 t44
London grows to 4 border pop
Warrior due next
We have a lion stuck on the beach to our east

Turn 3 t45
Warrior in move to hill SE of cap to fog bust start settler
C2 warrior healed up (renamed to Bob) Bob goes exploring more

Turn 4 t46
Bob spots a lion and runs away
Pasture done road next

Turn 5 t47
zzzz

Turn 6 t48
zzz

Turn 7 t49
Pottery in start writing

Spoiler :

Bob still dodging lion running around(Bob needs a
Marty hunkers down on a hill waiting for

Turn 8 t50
zzzz

Turn 9 t51
Wow, we're the largest civ out there

Spoiler :

Bob meets hits lion again, hopefully he'll hold off

Turn 10 t52
Bob survives hit across the river, heal in 4t

Spoiler :

Horses hooked up, move to hill to start mine

Turn 11 t53
Worker starts mine

Turn 12 t54
Settler in go for chariot, settler moves on to copper/red

Turn 13 t55
York settled queue up granary

Turn 14 t56
Bob heals up, starts scouting again

Turn 15 t57
Worker (named Chopper) goes to hill to chop out settler

Turn 16 t58
Writing in queue up Med

Spoiler :

Chariot in queue up settler
Chopper starts chopping

Turn 17 t59
Queue up granary to grow to size 5 in 1t, then switch back to settler
Hans (chariot) goes to fogbust the cow/rice

Turn 18 t60
Chop in, settler in 5
Found SB up NW corner

Turn 19 t61
London settler for 2pop overflow into worker
Chopper set to connect York

Turn 20 t61
Bob attacked by hurt bear, wins

Spoiler :

Settler starts toward cow/blue site
SB requests OB, accept to scout out his lands

Spoiler :

I stopped here. Overview

Spoiler :

Look back, York should have gone 1SE to get on the coast and the cow/rice 1SSE to get cow/rice/3silk overlap. but play what we got.

 

[pnaxighn]

Got it.

Do we have any sort of long-term plan? Continue to REX west, backfill, and see what happens? Anything more than that?

 

[silk1976]

I had considered (for the dot map) 1SE for what is now york, but there was nothing particularly compelling about that coastal location that I could see. I was also trying to make sure we hooked all three silk for the between blue and red dot, minimizing overlap and minimizing the useless tiles. Figured if its going to be a commerce city, limiting coastal tiles (which can't go much abot 2 without maybe the colossus) would be more beneficial in the long run.

The original location for blue dot was originally 1N of where York is now - hooking 3 silks, rice and cows - but then I realized it wouldn't get copper.

At least, that was the thought process - flawed as it may be

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Got it.

Do we have any sort of long-term plan? Continue to REX west, backfill, and see what happens? Anything more than that?

As long as I don't know what the mod is about this seems to be the best plan!

The oracle would be truly a tough call.. I'm not sure how fast Bull expands, but it seems the best land to get settled is eastward of blue dot.

 

[cripp7]

As long as I don't know what the mod is about this seems to be the best plan!

The oracle would be truly a tough call.. I'm not sure how fast Bull expands, but it seems the best land to get settled is eastward of blue dot.

From what I know about sitting bull he'll usually let his cities grow to about 5 then start expanding out, slow techer, sticks with archers/dog soldiers, scan usually take out early-mid game. Since we have chariots/axes soon vs dogs/protective archers - easy win!

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

So building a fourth city and afterwards starting with the Oracle seems to be quite a good idea!

 

[silk1976]

Ok, here is a recap of our status:

Roster
Pnaxighn --> up now
silk1976 --> on deck
Thy_Spellcraft -->
cripp7 --> just played

Expansion
Settle blue dot space, and explore SB lands. We might want to cut him off by aggressively expanding into his area - but I think we need to see more land before we can be most intelligent about placements.
I think the next turnset should see 2 cities settled (or at least close to it) - blue dot and fish/cow NE of our capital, since we have SH and can border pop quickly to make that a worker/settler farm.
But I think it critical to map out SB lands and remove some of those fogged out tiles.

Tech
Finish meditation, then go for priesthood so we can build the oracle. Use Oracle to get CoL for courthouses.

Production
Build a few workers, axemen and a spear or two.

Does that sound like a good plan for the next turnset?

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Expansion
Settle blue dot space, and explore SB lands. We might want to cut him off by aggressively expanding into his area - but I think we need to see more land before we can be most intelligent about placements.
I think the next turnset should see 2 cities settled (or at least close to it) - blue dot and fish/cow NE of our capital, since we have SH and can border pop quickly to make that a worker/settler farm.
But I think it critical to map out SB lands and remove some of those fogged out tiles.

I'd rather settle a city closer to SB than the fish/cow.. This one we can still add later on. As this might cost a bit more in distance the idea of taking CoL from Oracle seems to be the best choice!

Tech
Finish meditation, then go for priesthood so we can build the oracle. Use Oracle to get CoL for courthouses.

In case we're realy going for REXing eastward I thing we need to head straight towards currency and as there's only SB math seems to be the tech after priesthood!

Production
Build a few workers, axemen and a spear or two.

And don't forget the fourth settler in London and afterwards the oracle..

 

[silk1976]

I'd rather settle a city closer to SB than the fish/cow.. This one we can still add later on. As this might cost a bit more in distance the idea of taking CoL from Oracle seems to be the best choice!

I'm ok with this. The only reason why I suggested fish/cow was because we hadn't done any dotmapping/planning of cities that are near SB, and with a lot of plains and mountains, and only a single FP, I figured we should discuss city placement in that area before we settle. I was really pulled to the idea of swiping that copper from SB and denying him metal - but SB doesn't need metal for his dog warriors, so it became less of a priority.
Although we can settle the desert fish/pigs/cow tile later, if we settle it now, it should be able to pump out another settler in pretty short order to continue the westward REX. That tile won't be able to produce or for a while, so it'll be a good early-game worker/settler factory.
I could go either way - I dont feel too incredibly strongly about settling that desert fish/pigs/cow tile.
Anyone else want to chime in with an opinion on this?

In case we're realy going for REXing eastward I thing we need to head straight towards currency and as there's only SB math seems to be the tech after priesthood!

Right - we can tech math -> currency after priesthood, while building the oracle, with plans to use oracle to give us CoL.

And don't forget the fourth settler in London and afterwards the oracle..

I didn't realize until looking at the save that we have a settler out already, which would presumably be used for blue dot. If another settler is pumped out in the next turnset, then that settler can either go after fish/cow/pigs or near SB.