Poker

[RedRalph]

I always tend to hold my chips if the bull is bad

 

[holy king]

I always tend to hold my chips if the bull is bad

i'm not sure what you're talking about, but it sounds funny.

 

[RedRalph]

i'm not sure what you're talking about, but it sounds funny.

Well, you know yourself, spades come and go but an ace can land you in the red as often as as a reverse spoon.

 

[Ecofarm]

Thanks for the link, I'll be reading

 

[Syterion]

We really should set up a game between us all for some fun.

I'm on full tilt poker. How about we try to set it up this weekend?

BTW, I'm suicidallemming on full tilt.

 

[VoodooAce]

I'm SmackSaw on FT and PS....moslty HENL trnys and ring, but i like to mix it up in different cash games.

I live 15 miles from Laughlin, NV so i get to play a lot of live poker, too....

CFC should definitely have a poker nite on one of the sites....a private micro stakes SNG or something

I'd be glad to donk away a few bucks....

 

[DNK]

as i said, i know nothing about your opponent, and more importantly the level your playing on. but assuming an average player on something like NL50/NL100, yes it's always good.

you crush every two pair, every TPTK/TPGK, every straight draw, and every lower set. (if you had mid set.) you get called by every two pair, most TPTK/TPGK, every lower set, every higher set.
keep in mind that two pair and TPTK/TPGK are much more likely.

trust me, i played the game semi-professionally for 6 months. (live, 12-14 hour sessions three days a week. mostly on weekdays, which means mostly against pros and students who know a thing or two about the game.)

not even saying i was a good player, but i was rather solid and quite good when playing my A+ game.

Well if it's really play money then no strategy in the world is going to save his hand But, what the king said. I normally don't go all in, but if I had a set and it was a wet board I'd be donk/overbetting the pot at least, unless it was HU or 1v2, in which case I'd be more interested in getting value out of my opponents rather than shoving out potential drawing hands, which would be less likely. Let the TPGK pay to think he's the best hand for a few streets is what I say, and let the overpair holes stay in, since they're not going to improve to a set more than 9% of the time.

But whenever you flop a set you've almost always got the best hand unless it's a ridiculous board, monochrome or 89T or something like that. And if you flop a set, you've about a 25% chance of improving to a full house by the river anyway (maybe ~20% since one would assume one or two of your opponents would have flopped a pair to stay in). 2-flush draws have about a 40% chance of improving by the river, so if you're worried about someone drawing on that, betting more than 2x the pot would be wise (of course, some of the time they hit a flush you'll also hit a boat, so actual odds are better for you than 1.5:1).

Thanks for the link, I'll be reading

There's a lot on that forum.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/39/small-stakes-pl-nl/ssnl-link-collection-100801/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78/micro-stakes-full-ring/announcement37.html

Those are the two main stickies I'd check out first.

 

[rhawn]

Notice also I played from the button. If people limp to your button, I believe you should almost always call, and frequently raise.

I am wrong here. I should have said: when the hand is folded to you on the button at a 6-Handed table you should raise frequently and sometimes call or fold. When you raise your opponent will miss 2/3 of the time or will be left in limbo with middle or bottom pair and very likely to fold to a C-Bet. Other times you will be able to sniff out what they have based on their actions on following streets. You should be trying to pick up many small pots in position. In fact most of your money you make should come from when you are the in the button or cutoff seats.

When you are shorthanded you need to play more hands, weaker hands, than if you were at a full table(9 or 10). Hand 1 is intended to demonstrate taking a pot down with a bluff after missing a draw because you know what your opponent has.
Hand 1:

Spoiler :

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($1.98)
MP ($1.56)
CO ($4.67)
rhawn (Button) ($5.56)
SB ($2.93)
BB ($0.59)

Preflop: rhawn is Button with 8s, 9d
On this hand I pick up an 89 off on the button. Not a great hand but certainly playable with position.
Disagree. Offsuit mid connectors are garbage in anything but a steal attempt at the 2NL level. Even at my loosest I wouldn't consider this hand unless pot odds were 10:1+ and I was SB or something. You're just not going to flop anything often enough to justify putting money in with this save such scenarios.
Its understandable that you wouldn't include 89o as a good starting hand. However it is a short handed and if you only play your premiums you won't get action. I don't advocate playing 89o often, I don't, but in this case I chose to go along.

UTG calls $0.02, 2 folds, rhawn calls $0.02, 1 fold, BB checks
I get one caller in front of me. I could put in a raise here but I'll just call and keep the pot small.
2.5:1 pot odds are a definite no-go with that hand, position or not. Not to mention you could be raised behind somewhat regularly with a couple limpers in front of the blinds.
UTG limped so I doubt either of the blinds are going to raise. At this limit you see alot of loose-passive opponents and nits. We have the small blind fold when he is getting 7:1 expressed odds. When I choose to play a hand like 89o I'd rather raise with it giving me better fold equity on later streets if an A or K comes but I don't because UTG limping shows strength and I don't want to play a big pot with him.

Flop: ($0.07) Kd, 6s, 7d (3 players)
Good flop for me. I pick up and up/down draw. Meaning any 5 or 10 gives me a str8.
BB checks, UTG checks, rhawn bets $0.06, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.06
Everyone checks to me so I put in about a pot sized raise. Gotta get some money in there in case I hit my draw. I get one caller.

Turn: ($0.19) Ac (2 players)
The other guy checks again, I think he might have hit a piece of the flop already, he called a pot sized bet out of position. I'll check here and hope I hit my draw. Checking here also reveals that I'm probably on a draw and just wanted a free card on the turn.
UTG checks, rhawn checks

River: ($0.19) 2d (2 players)
Ok I missed my draw. The other guy leads out for about the size of the pot. I'm thinking because of his call on the flop he has a king. He checked the turn, probably afraid of the ace. With his raise of .18 there is .27 in the pot, if I call .18 there will be .45 in to be won. Because of my raise on the flop then the check on the river he probably puts me on a draw. Since the river card is a diamond it is perfectly reasonable to assume I was on a diamond draw. I raise here about 2/3 of the size the pot would be if I'd just called, representing the flush. He folds.
UTG bets $0.18, rhawn raises to $0.40, 1 fold

Anyway, to the river play. Really poor odds you'd have picked up the flush, so your opponent probably thought you had kings instead or an ace that you slowplayed on the turn, and you basically bluffed yourself a pot. The check on the turn signaled a fear of the A more than anything. He probably had a K with a poor kicker. Well done, but at 2NL bluffing is just bad news unless you have a good read on your opponent. I just wouldn't expect that to work most of the time
I clearly bluffed here, you don't have to tell me that. Most likely he has a king with a poor kicker, probably something like KQ - K9. I don't see how he could put me on a A slowplaying. I lead out on the flop then checked the turn. This is a classic example of the free card play. I bet so he will check on the turn and I get a free river. At this point he probably put me on a draw or a low pair. There are 2 draws on this board, the str8 I was drawing to and the flush. His respect of my reraise indicates he believes I either had him on the flop or drew him out on the river. I bluff often enough at micro limits, I just choose my spots. Sometimes I bluff small pots to get called and get action on later hands, other times its to pick up a pot like this. I can't disagree with comments made on hand 2.

Here's my worst move ever (was a couple months ago). I melted for 2 weeks after this.

I pushed my opponent out with a nut flush and a royal draw, missing a chance to get a royal. Sometimes, you must rise above greed.

I'll comment on other posts eventually. Just a little sore on poker at the moment (my pocket trips got beat by higher pocket trips, I hate that - I really need to learn to just call with such a hand sometimes).

On the royal, if you pushed him out on the draw, I doubt he calls if you hit. Anyhow all royal draws are one outers. Not very good odds if that's what you need to win a showdown.

Set over set happens. On a unpaired rainbow board with no made str8s possible you are going to go broke 100%(or draw to 1 out) of the time if your opponent has top set and you have middle or bottom set. Don't let it bother you, you will get 2 pair and top pair call much more freqently than someone having top set.

 

[holy king]

Well if it's really play money then no strategy in the world is going to save his hand But, what the king said. I normally don't go all in, but if I had a set and it was a wet board I'd be donk/overbetting the pot at least, unless it was HU or 1v2, in which case I'd be more interested in getting value out of my opponents rather than shoving out potential drawing hands, which would be less likely. Let the TPGK pay to think he's the best hand for a few streets is what I say, and let the overpair holes stay in, since they're not going to improve to a set more than 9% of the time.

But whenever you flop a set you've almost always got the best hand unless it's a ridiculous board, monochrome or 89T or something like that. And if you flop a set, you've about a 25% chance of improving to a full house by the river anyway (maybe ~20% since one would assume one or two of your opponents would have flopped a pair to stay in). 2-flush draws have about a 40% chance of improving by the river, so if you're worried about someone drawing on that, betting more than 2x the pot would be wise (of course, some of the time they hit a flush you'll also hit a boat, so actual odds are better for you than 1.5:1).

wtf? how much has online poker improved in the last 1 and 1/2 years?

 

[pau17]

How much cheating is there in online poker? That is always a problem with online games, especially if there is a client program that is on each computer..

 

[holy king]

on the major sites it's pretty much out of question.

but that was some time ago.

 

[Ecofarm]

On the royal, if you pushed him out on the draw, I doubt he calls if you hit. Anyhow all royal draws are one outers. Not very good odds if that's what you need to win a showdown.

I had the nut flush at the turn (no table pair). All I had to do was check for a shot at a royal and I could have bet then. I bet pot x1.5 at the turn and he folded.

It doesn't get much stupider than that. Even if you don't care about getting a royal, the bet was too heavy. I got excited and greedy and brain-farted. It's not like I needed to fear the board pairing on the river and him hitting a crib (yea, I'm ghetto-lingo like dat).

Set over set happens. On a unpaired rainbow board with no made str8s possible you are going to go broke 100%(or draw to 1 out) of the time if your opponent has top set and you have middle or bottom set. Don't let it bother you, you will get 2 pair and top pair call much more freqently than someone having top set.

Thanks. I guess I'll go back to trying to get all the chips in at that point.

How much cheating is there in online poker? That is always a problem with online games, especially if there is a client program that is on each computer..

People might sit at a table together and "conspire" but the game is designed to pretty much screw that plan. Good player teams can muscle a table, it seems, but I dunno.

What do you guys think about players trying to work together at a table? Do they usually get screwed for doing so? Of course, if you and 4 buddies are sitting at a 6 table, it would be hard to not take the solo guy's chips, right? But the profit margin:time ratio gets pyric, I think.

 

[pau17]

on the major sites it's pretty much out of question.

but that was some time ago.

I see that pokerstars.net has a huge list of allowed third-party programs...seems unfair.

 

[rhawn]

I don't quite understand. You won the hand. With the nut flush you probably still win the hand. Are you just plain upset you didn't hit a royal? That shouldn't concern you. You should be more worried about how you could have extracted more money from your opponents.

 

[Ecofarm]

I see that pokerstars.net has a huge list of allowed third-party programs...seems unfair.

The third-party programs just do the math for you and keep records. That would help me in pot-limit but I find no-limit to often be a game of finesse and mind-games. Like, I'll push someone around with crappy hands, get called to show for a couple small pots. Then I go nuts after my typical bluff bets and he often calls a 2x pot bet because he is convinced I am just a bully.

I don't quite understand. You won the hand. With the nut flush you probably still win the hand. Are you just plain upset you didn't hit a royal? That shouldn't concern you. You should be more worried about how you could have extracted more money from your opponents.

Both things bug me. I've never had a royal. The people at the table have probably never seen one; I kinda ruined it for everyone. I know this is meta-poker, but you probably understand. I don't just play for nickle and dimes. I troll and flame when I play.

 

[holy king]

sounds fun. but that's not what NL should be like.

 

[Ecofarm]

I'm sciency enough IRL. I play for fun. I can play without shenanigans if I really don't want to lose, but manipulating people into irrational bets and calls is the real fun.

Pot limit is a science, no limit is an art.

If I play a SNG instead of ring, I don't play games till blinds force action unless there's a real sucker at the table.

I've only been playing about 3 years and I've avoided outside influence so as to develop my own style, so I'm no expert. I'll be reading those links people provided.

 

[holy king]

sounds like you shoudl play live.

 

[Ecofarm]

I went from 40 to 250 last time I did

But the local casino is a 250 minimum SNG and the rings are all 1/2 limits I'll play pot limit but I hate flat-limits.

I'm not very poor but if my aces got cracked on the first hand of a $250 sng, I'd be pissed.

 

[holy king]

250 sng the lowest? crazy casino.