Poll: Does Turkey in your view belong to the European Union?

[Zarn]

I'm an American (don't worry I voted last option but you can't stop me from stating my opinion, unless you help run the site ).
I don't like the EU.
I believe Turkey should be closer to the US than the EU.
Therefore my answer is no for Turkey being in the EU.

 

[Xen]

well what ever the choice is, i dont see how anyone with any knoelwdg eof history can deny Turkey a place in europe based on geography of culture; its been a part of europe since the Classical greeks.

 

[AceChilla]

well what ever the choice is, i dont see how anyone with any knoelwdg eof history can deny Turkey a place in europe based on geography of culture; its been a part of europe since the Classical greeks.

Quite alot has changed since the ancient greeks

 

[Zarn]

well what ever the choice is, i dont see how anyone with any knoelwdg eof history can deny Turkey a place in europe based on geography of culture; its been a part of europe since the Classical greeks.

I can't, and if I actually liked the EU, I would say Turkey not only has the right but should have been in the EU long before.

 

[Urederra]

Just like Winner pointed it out, what Europe should care about first is about its future. We cannot solve the discussion about Turkey without knowing first what the EU is supposed to be or to become.

Clearly, the way the EU works currently is going nowhere. And I see only two options... either we want the EU to work and we start a big debate on this, or we simply get over it and change it into a mere free-trade zone.

Why Europe doesn't work currently ?

1. Because the citizens don't feel they have any power on it.
2. Because the EU works on compromise and Europeans are fed up with compromise (check the high scores of smaller parties in Germany yesterday).
3. Because the EU is felt as illegitimate and many Europeans will never recognize its legitimacy.

So now that we know the reasons why Europe isn't working, how to make it work again ? Here's the debate I would like to have. Only after, we could talk about Turkey, Ukraine or Russia again.

Nice chat everybody.

Marla, Very well exposed. Although I would add one tiny thing. They should reduce the VAT to less than 10 %. What The H*ll are they doing with those 17 - 21 % taxes (depending on the country)? And don't say that is for Social Security/Health care because those things are paid with other taxes.

In my opinion, many people don't like the EU because there is too much bureaucracy and the taxes are waaaaay too high.


And the other thingy, the constitution hasn't been approved, So, let's work on it first. But everybody, not only a french one wanting to be Napolean.

 

[AceChilla]

I can't, and if I actually liked the EU, I would say Turkey not only has the right but should have been in the EU long before.

I think Mexico, Canada, Cuba and Puorto Rico have the right to be in the USA.

But I don't think you understand what the EU really is.

 

[amadeus]

I would prefer to see Japan join the EU, as they have more European-type values and customs than the Turks.

You know about as much of the Japanese as you do of Judaism. Everyone should read the sites you have in your signature - it'll be unlikely anyone will ever take you seriously again.

I'm really sure the "kosher tax" is killing me.

 

[Urederra]

well what ever the choice is, i dont see how anyone with any knoelwdg eof history can deny Turkey a place in europe based on geography of culture; its been a part of europe since the Classical greeks.

Did you miss the Lepanto battle?

 

[Zarn]

I think Mexico, Canada, Cuba and Puorto Rico have the right to be in the USA.

But I don't think you understand what the EU really is.

I actually do. It is an economic union that could easily become more militaric and political (it already is both). It is actually fairly scary. I used to be happy about a strong Europe (in the 90's), but now it looks like it is being used to counter the United States. It even forces nations to change laws just to even join the union (That's domination, my friend).

BTW, Puerto Rico is in the United States!

 

[Xen]

Quite alot has changed since the ancient greeks

like what? the turks themselves? pish; the difference between the turkick peoples andthe steppe peoples such as the Scythians in minimal; the fact that after byzantium was conqoured, th e Turks whole sale lifted Byzantien culture and mized with islam just re-joins Turkey at the hip to european culture; its just another regional varient of of the same fathering Roman culture, shaped and molded, as needed and according to new devlopments and influences.

 

[Xen]

Did you miss the Lepanto battle?

did you miss the battle of Vienna?

 

[AceChilla]

like what? the turks themselves? pish; the difference between the turkick peoples andthe steppe peoples such as the Scythians in minimal; the fact that after byzantium was conqoured, th e Turks whole sale lifted Byzantien culture and mized with islam just re-joins Turkey at the hip to european culture; its just another regional varient of of the same fathering Roman culture, shaped and molded, as needed and according to new devlopments and influences.

That modern day Turkey has some roman influences doesn't mean it has any rights to join the 21th century EU. Nobody has rights to join a club. The members who are in it decide about that. Morocco, Tunesia, Egypt, Israel all have roman influences, should we let them join too?

And shall we let the scandinavian countries out because they have not been conquered by some group of people. Your basis of deciding who needs to be in the EU have little relevance in modern day Europe.

That has far more to do with political culture, economic strenght, human rights and stability. And on those qualifications Turkey lags way behind, history or no history.

The EU was founded to keep the Germans and French from killing eachother off. Turkey has little relevance for that founding reason also.

 

[Aphex_Twin]

Marla, Very well exposed. Although I would add one tiny thing. They should reduce the VAT to less than 10 %. What The H*ll are they doing with those 17 - 21 % taxes (depending on the country)? And don't say that is for Social Security/Health care because those things are paid with other taxes.

IIRC, the EU set a minimum VAT tax of ~12% (correct me here) so 10% would be quite impossible. But 17-21% would be a dream for the Hungarians, who have to put up with 25% or Romania (19%).

I think it would be cheaper and more efficient to give up EU protectionism altogether. But to give credit where it's due, the EU is still a better model than the corrupt kleptocracy of the East-Europe, Balkan area. The desire to reform and change in those republics is supported mainly by the aura of mistique that surrounds the EU. But in general it will be a failed project if it doesn't move away from crippling socialism and bureocracy.

 

[Kyriakos]

well what ever the choice is, i dont see how anyone with any knoelwdg eof history can deny Turkey a place in europe based on geography of culture; its been a part of europe since the Classical greeks.

just wanted to say that this argument is not correct. Turkey is not to be confused with ancient asia minor.

 

[Kosez]

I think Turkey should become member of EU. Sooner the better.

1. It would send a message to Middle East, that EU doesn't hate their countries, as long as they respect human rights, and act as civilized people should.
2. It would mean economic pressure in form of cheap Turkish workforce, which would force EU governments to react and EU workers to adapt.
3. It would push political influence in EU a little bit towards the east and away from France/UK/Germany.
4. It would give Europe an access to central Asia and the Persian gulf, and enable Europe to try to save situations down there before US screws it all.
5. It would give message to EU citizens, that in 21st century there is no time for xenophobia, and disrespect for different cultures and religions.
6. etc...

But!:
EU has to prepare for Turkey at least as much as Turkey has to prepare for EU!

 

[Aphex_Twin]

just wanted to say that this argument is not correct. Turkey is not to be confused with ancient asia minor.

Well, since the Argument against Turkey is that "it's not a part of Europe", what Xen says is perfectly valid.

 

[Kyriakos]

I think that this is only the skin-deep part of the argument though. The real argument seems to be focused on geopolitics and culture.

 

[Steph]

I'm sorry but the location is relevent to me.

I understand your point of view.

When I say the location is irrelevent, I wasn't very clear. I mean we should not reject Turkey because on a map it's not within the boundaries some history books shown 100 years ago.

The question of the strategical impact of the geographical location is a relevent one.

However, with the increase of oil prices, and the location of Turkey next to Iraq, Iran, and closer to Arabia than any other European countries, it may be more an asset than an hindrance in the future...

If something happens in the region, I prefer to be allied with the Turks than allied with Luxemburg (no offense to Luxemburg).

We cannot remain isolationist and play the ostrich putting the head in the sand. Perhaps the interests of Russia and Turkey are not exactly the same as ours. But we cannot ignore them. Look at Iran and its nuclear program. We (Germany, France, UK) are quite concerned by it. I'm not sure having Turkey with us on that would be so bad. Are you?

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Since it is an ongoing topic in the EU i decided to post a poll about it.

The last option (i am not European) is meant to be chosen by those who dont live in the continent/arent european. So please if you are american/asian/african etc choose this option

poll choice 3: i meant "it shouldnt become a full member, but reach a special partner to the EU status".

As an American, I find it amusing that Cyprus was admitted even though it is still in the midst of a civil war, with a Turkish separatist state in its northeast. That adds some complications to the Turkey question.

 

[strategycat]

Everyone should read the sites you have in your signature

That's the most intelligent comment made yet in this entire discussion - thank you.
There's lots of info at the sites in my sig, practically none of which ever appears in the mainstream judenpresse.

Here is my sig again, in case anyone missed it.

(BTW, I do hope that all of you free Europeans are able to access the sites in my sig. I hope they are not blocked by your local ISP's because that would be downright fascistic now, wouldn't it?)